Public Accounts committee  As I said before, it doesn't do much good for this committee to have its own investigatory team, such as a team of forensic accountants, who would do the sort of work the Auditor General does in terms of so-called strictly fact-finding. Where I think more resources would be useful for this committee, and for other standing committees as well, is more in terms of the digesting of the information, particularly the Auditor General's reports, and frankly, in the preparation of the committee, in preparation of members for hearings.

Public Accounts committee  There are a number of items there. You referred to some of them as more mechanical issues--the format of questioning, the rotation, and things like that. It's certainly true, I think; it's widely felt that it's not the most preferred system of getting at the heart of the issues the committee wants to discuss.

Public Accounts committee  I'll just add a bit to that, especially in regard to incremental change. The Gomery recommendations may seem perhaps more timid and more tinkering than they could have potentially been. The improvement or reform of Parliament must never rely on the idea, particularly, that there was once a golden age and it's a case of re-establishing Parliament where it was.

Public Accounts committee  There are a variety of things to respond to. On the first issue of PAC membership, many people make the point that for better or worse, this is not a very sexy committee. I think that's the phrase people tend to use. When I was talking earlier about the different roles of members and so on, it's very difficult for members to go back to their constituents—and you would know this—and talk about some of the more abstract accomplishments, as opposed to talking about the policy that one has introduced, or perhaps about some incredible scandal of small waste that they uncovered.

Public Accounts committee  One of the greatest problems of our accountability system generally is the short tenure of people in various positions--deputy ministers, ministers themselves, and frankly, members of committees, including this one. I've spoken particularly on that point. I agree with Professor Franks.

Public Accounts committee  On this issue, especially the situation you gave of having a timely investigation of facts and then referring further to the Auditor General, hypothetically that could work. I think, as I said before, that sort of fact-finding investigation quite often will duplicate the work of the Auditor General.

Public Accounts committee  The answer in some ways is fairly practical. In terms of keeping the relationship on a professional basis, which is my understanding of what the relationship is here, it's quite possible to rely on the Auditor General in the sense I'm talking about. But also, she, in her office, is responsible to this committee.

Public Accounts committee  This committee is free to do those things. It historically has not initiated large investigations of any sort. Indeed, to do so would largely duplicate the work the Auditor General has done. The role of this committee, and its contribution separate from the Auditor General, is to act as a forum for the discussion of the Auditor General's findings.

Public Accounts committee  That's correct. I must say that in speaking to previous incarnations of this committee I've always been struck by the fact that members are quite comfortable with the relationship with the Auditor General.

Public Accounts committee  The alternative, I would suggest, would be a committee that had more resources of its own and would perhaps, at times, pursue an agenda that is somewhat different from the reports of the Auditor General, which does certainly happen with some of the provincial public accounts committees.

Public Accounts committee  It would have to be quite an unusual situation, so I'm not sure exactly what I would advocate in that regard.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you for inviting me to speak to you today. I want to make a brief opening statement, and then I look forward to your questions and comments. For some years I have observed the House of Commons committee system and the attempts to reform and improve it. Many people, both inside and outside Parliament, argue that committees are the places where the role of the individual MP can best be enhanced.