Agriculture Committee on Oct. 27th, 2009

[Greg Norton]

Yes, I'd be happy, Mr. Chairman, to supply that. It'll take some time.

How tight is the timeline?

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

As quick as you can, but obviously you have other things you're working on as well.

[Greg Norton]

But this isn't that important. There are all sorts of stories and experiences out there.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

I'd be very interested in seeing those.

[Greg Norton]

Okay. We'd be happy to supply them.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

As we will be making a report, a submission, to the minister and the House on this, it would be nice to be able to include some of the pertinent information on that.

[Greg Norton]

Correct. Thank you.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

I give the rest of my time to Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Richards, you have a little over two minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Okay, I'll have to be quick.

Thank you all for being here today, first of all.

I guess I'll start with Mr. Norton. I had the opportunity this summer to spend some time in your neck of the woods, out in the Okanagan. My son was in a hockey camp out there, and I had a chance to eat so many of those cherries out there, which I love, I thought I was going to turn into a cherry. I surely enjoyed that. And some of the other fruit out there, the peaches, etc., I enjoyed like I can't believe.

I'm curious that you focused specifically on cherries when you talked about the dumping that's happening in the market. I just wondered if you are seeing that with a lot of the other fruit as well.

You are, eh? It's pretty much right across the board with all the...?

[Greg Norton]

Yes, it's pretty much across the board. We experience flooding from the Americans specifically with soft fruit. The apple deal I'm not that familiar with, as I don't raise any apples.

But if you recall last year during the Beijing Olympics, we saw Galen Weston on our TVs telling us how much he supports Canadian farmers. It was just awesome. I was very proud, as a Canadian. One of the guys was a very good friend of mine, the cherry grower. I was thrilled. But three weeks later I threw 3,000 pounds of my beautiful big black plums into the compost because Galen and everybody else—all the wholesalers—had bought the tail end of the California plum deal. They dumped them into Canada, so I threw mine into the compost. And the ones that I did sell, I sold at about just over a third more than I did the year before.

So, yes, it's pretty much across the board. It's a marketing strategy they have. I mean, we're really easy, eh? They can put just about whatever they want into Canada. We don't challenge anything, so we're a great place to get rid of stuff at the tail end of a deal.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Okay.

I assumed it would likely be across the board, but I wanted to make sure of that.

[Greg Norton]

Yes, it is.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Just with the little bit of time I have remaining, I'll maybe ask a question. All three of you are welcome to answer.

I'll start with you, Mr. Norton, because you mentioned you are the third generation on the farm, and you have the fourth on the way and hopefully even a fifth. You've just seen him born.

[Greg Norton]

She's on the ground.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Certainly, I come from a long line of farmers as well. Obviously it's not something I'm currently doing, but it's certainly something I have a major concern for; I want to see the future of the family farm remain.

So I'll just ask all of you—and Ms. Simmons, you may want to answer as well—do you see a future for the family farm in your particular sector? If so, what's the one thing that might be most important in ensuring that? Are they things like opening up new markets? Is it lessening the regulatory burden? Is it more freedom of choice in your marketing? I heard Ms. Simmons mention that in particular, and I know I've talked about that many times in regard to, say, the Canadian Wheat Board, as an example. And then maybe another idea might be opportunities for more value-added.

So those are just a few suggestions. I was just curious if you see a future, and is one of those things the key to it?

[Greg Norton]

Just to answer that first, Mr. Chair, if I may, it's a very appropriate discussion, because it's one that my wife and I are having an awful lot these days.

We have a 30-year-old son who's working in the oil patch in northern B.C. He makes more money than all us in this room, if we combine a bunch, and it's very difficult for me to talk to my son.

I'm 57 years old now, and we need to retool. We are working on the basics of a dried cherry business that we're trying to develop. We need to switch up some varieties and look at some new markets, given what we're talking about here. So we're at a retooling stage.

The foundation is there. My grandfather planted the foundation in 1921. We're in a position now that we have to go with the next generation, and I need my son's energy. It's really difficult for me.

I'd love to respond to that question with a really good answer, but right now I'm competing with a huge wage in the north and I just can't draw him back. I don't have anything to offer him to bring him back to the farm, other than a whole mess of work and no money at this point. So it's difficult.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Valeriote, you have five minutes.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm hoping you'll be generous with the time you give Mr. Smardon, because--

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Valeriote, I'll keep track of the time.

He was just a few seconds longer than Mr. Easter.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In answer to one of Mr. Richards' questions, I think one of the solutions to the family farm crisis right now, in large part, is found in the rather compelling argument made by Mr. Smardon in his presentation. I was very impressed with it.

Mr. Smardon, on that point, I have for some time been talking about turning all this wonderful research that's out there into jobs. In fact, farmers will not only feed cities, but they'll feed industry in the future if we can get our heads around this concept.

I've witnessed the production of dashboards from plastics, and in fact they make seats, I think you said, out of soybeans.

I'm going to get right to the three questions I have of you.

First, you mentioned the national commercialization assessment that was completed for Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada. What is the status of that report? Has it been received by Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, and has there been any action or have there been any recommendations from that?

Secondly, can you expand a bit more on the point you made about the industry being ignored by venture capital and investment? Are there concerns beyond those relating to funding, and has that been particularly problematic in the agriculture and agri-food industry?

You mentioned two solutions. One that you raised is funding, but the second one, the one I want you to speak about, is this commercialization expansion program. Are there other examples that you can give us, and what exactly do you have in mind with that?

[Dave Smardon]

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to thank the member for his questions.

The national report was delivered to Agriculture Canada back in late January or early February of 2009. I'm not aware of the direct impact on policies of that report; I wouldn't be aware of it anyway. I hope it's being utilized in producing new programs and so on, but I don't know for sure. They've had it in their hands for nine months.

With respect to the problematic lack of venture capital, perception is almost everything in our world. One of the issues we have among the investment community is that, first of all, they don't understand agriculture or agri-food, so it's an education issue. The second issue, with all due respect to the farmers and producers, is that a negative aspect comes out when farmers and producers are driving their vehicles around Queen's Park. The investors pick up the Globe and Mail and see that picture on the front page and wonder why they would invest in a money-losing industry. Again, they don't understand the dynamics of the industry and where the opportunities are, but that's the perception they have. We've struggled to change that perception. The third aspect is that investors invest in what they know. If you have major money in the oil patch and you've made a lot of money, you're going to reinvest in the oil patch. In the case of the high-tech or medical community, where we have seen a boom take place, we now have plenty of entrepreneurs who became investors and are now investing back into those communities. We don't have that list of successful entrepreneurs in the agricultural industry in Canada. We have to build that and attract other investors into the industry. That's what I mean when I say it's problematic.

The third point you asked about was the commercialization expansion program.

We have a variety of organizations from coast to coast that dabble in certain aspects of commercialization, and the report lists them all. Some of them, for example, will put on breakfasts and invite entrepreneurs in. They'll try to introduce entrepreneurs to other entrepreneurs in the hope that the introductions will result in some form of commercialization. It's a very hands-off approach, and 90% of the time it doesn't result in very much.

In a couple of models--and you'll see this in Israel, France, and parts of Australia--the entrepreneur needs to be shepherded from the very beginning all the way through until his product is in the marketplace, because he may have regulatory, marketing and distribution, licensing, or legal issues to deal with, and very few entrepreneurs know it all. They need this help.

Setting up a standard, a suite of commercialization services across the country, will allow somebody who is located in Truro, Nova Scotia, or Laval, Quebec, to get the same service that you would expect in downtown Vancouver, Calgary, Saskatoon, or Toronto. That is not the case today. Today you have expertise in certain areas, but no expertise and no service in other areas. That's detrimental, because a lot of the research and commercialization that need to be done are in the non-urban areas.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You time has expired, Mr. Valeriote.

Mr. Shipley, you have five minutes.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you so much.

I thank the panel for being here.

First of all, both to Mr. Norton and Ms. Simmons, I very much appreciate having the folks who are on the ground here at this committee. I know a number of potato producers in my area. We don't have a lot of cherries grown in my area, but in Ontario we do.

Ms. Simmons, is the issue you talked about, which we're going to look into, a federal or a provincial regulation?