Agriculture Committee on March 14th, 2012

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

When they meet, they obviously prepare. Do they prepare recommendations that go directly to the minister or to you?

[Steve Tierney]

Depending on the nature of the recommendation, they could go all the way to the minister. Yes, they need to discuss issues and work things out, and their recommendations can either go from the membership individually, from the round table, or through the department.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Out of curiosity, are you aware whether the issue of food labelling has been discussed at any of them? Particularly labelling of food coming into the country from outside of the country and whether or not....

More specifically, people in Guelph are really concerned. I guess our questions usually arise from our own experience in our own communities, but sometimes, something could be produced in one country, transported to another country for processing, another country for packaging, and then it winds up in Canada and we don't know where the heck it has come from.

[Susie Miller, Director General, Food Value Chain Bureau, Market and Industry Services Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

In terms of the issues that come up at the round tables, certainly the whole labelling issue has come up a number of times, because the industry feels it impacts on their business. There is a tendency to focus on trying to resolve strategic actions, but we do use this as an opportunity for discussions with regulators. For example, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is present at all the round tables, plus we might have Health Canada, Human Resources and Skills Development Canada, whatever federal department impacts on it.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay, Ms. Miller, then can I ask you this: has anything been done about the issue? Because it seems to be an issue out there that's not being dealt with. Is the issue getting to the minister and is it being looked at? I'm not asking you to state what the policy is.

[Susie Miller]

All the results of the round tables go directly to the minister, but in terms of action, I'm afraid we'll have to refer you to our colleagues at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay, they're next. I'll raise it with them.

Another question is on organics. You've mentioned there's an organics round table and then there's a grains round table, and they are separate. I thought what a wonderful opportunity if you get the two together to have a conversation about the issues that exist between them, particularly with respect to low-level presence, buffer zones, and those kinds of things.

I'm convinced there can be some solutions for at least certain issues that exist between them. Has anybody thought of bringing them together, and would you bring that back as a recommendation?

[Susie Miller]

Certainly that is an interesting concept. In this specific case, several representatives of the organic round table are also members of the grains round table to do exactly what you're talking about. The organics round table does cover horticulture products, grains, processed food, and livestock. So, we try to make the connections among those various tables when they have issues in common.

We'd be very interested in any further recommendations you might have on how....

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Would you take this one back?

[Susie Miller]

Certainly.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

All right.

Mr. Tierney, you spoke of successes and you also mentioned the limitations of these round tables. Can tell us about some of the limitations as you see them and how those limitations might be corrected?

[Steve Tierney]

Susie probably has a different perspective, but I think the limitations are more just the personal limitations of people. It takes a little bit of time for people to step back and look at the whole supply chain and not just their particular role in it.

We want to reduce costs, make the pie bigger, and increase revenues, so the whole supply chain can grow. That just takes a while. People need to get comfortable. People who are usually adversaries have to get comfortable with each other at the table. That to me is the biggest limitation, but it's one that usually has been overcome in time.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lobb, you have five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

The first question is for Mr. Tierney.

Obviously, the round tables are important and a good tool with the food processing industry. One of the parts on the second page, second paragraph says “Stakeholders cite problems with unclear and inconsistent regulatory requirements; slow and non-transparent decision-making....”

It goes on and on.

Probably everyone in the industry understands that's a problem. Pretty well every farmer I've ever spoken with would understand that's a problem. I'm sure a majority of the people in your department understand that's a problem. I'm just trying to understand.

The round table is there. The issue's already known. Obviously, they're tackling this in the meantime. So how do the mechanics of this all work, because there are issues that need to be dealt with here?

[Steve Tierney]

Well, a typical discussion—if you would—about an issue would go over the various sides of it. On a lot of issues, although if it's government versus on a regulation.... There's a number of issues where there's a winner and a loser, so there's a balancing discussion that has to go on at the round table, with a bit of give and take.

There are other discussions where, yes, you want to change a regulation, but you want to make sure that you change it in a way that you don't inadvertently hurt someone else. There are a lot of explanations and descriptions going on.

Typically, you then come to a resolution, and that's when we and other colleagues at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and other places, who have more control over the regulations at Health Canada, have a discussion, but it's not—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

So you specifically, would you sit at the processors round table? Is it something that you've done in the past?

[Steve Tierney]

I was at the last two food processors working groups—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

So just to that one, Ted Johnston from the Alberta Food Processing Association was here three weeks ago or whenever. His comment was that for a mid-level processor, you set your facility up to be federally regulated and inspected by the CFIA. Then you have to start to work with the individual retailers—Loblaws, Sobeys, Metro, and Walmart—and they all have different regulations. Is this the kind of thing that comes up at the round table as to why all these individual retailers do it this way...?

[Steve Tierney]

I—

Sorry?

[Susie Miller]

I can answer.

[Steve Tierney]

Okay.

[Susie Miller]

That is one of the most effective benefits of having a round table: we do have the retailers there. Also, we do have the industry, which maybe has developed non-regulated systems, and we have the regulators. A lot of them are looking at how we actually put in place assurance systems that are comfortable for the retailers, that meet the regulatory...but that industry can undertake itself.

So at a number of the round tables, they have selected this mechanism to ensure that the costs are minimized and that what they're putting in place makes sense. For example, in the horticulture round table, they are looking at environmental sustainability, because retailers are saying they want something, so any—

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay. Sorry, but we're just tailing off a little bit. I'm trying to get right into, say, for example, the red meat sectors and the processing there. Because the whole point is that it's good for the whole system if there are standards, because the processor only has to meet one standard, which should lower his cost of production, lower the cost to the retailer, and ultimately, we hope, lower the cost to the consumer.

Does that occur? Also, is there a public document where a farmer in Huron County can see where these guys are actually having this discussion? Is there something public that you can see at the end of the day for what has come out of these round tables?

[Susie Miller]

Yes, the documents are public on our website. They are a summary of the decisions taken and the actions that are committed to.

As well, the various members of the round tables, whether it's the Ontario Cattlemen, for example, or the Canadian Meat Council, are mandated to go back to talk to their members about it. But if you have any suggestions on how we could actually improve the communications and what kinds of communication would be valuable, that would be extremely helpful.