Evidence of meeting #9 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jim Everson  Vice-President, Government Relations, Canola Council of Canada
Rick White  General Manager, Canadian Canola Growers Association
Robert Godfrey  Director, Policy and Government Relations, Canadian Fertilizer Institute
Clyde Graham  Vice-President, Strategy and Alliances, Canadian Fertilizer Institute
Matthew Holmes  Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association
Richard Wansbutter  Consultant, Viterra and Chair, Western Grain Elevator Association
Wade Sobkowich  Executive Director, Western Grain Elevator Association
Jean-Marc Ruest  Senior Vice-President, Corporate Affairs and General Counsel, Richardson International Limited, Member, Western Grain Elevator Association
Carsten Bredin  Assistant Vice-President, Grain Merchandizing Richardson International Limited and Member, Western Grain Elevator Association

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Members, would you take your seats, please.

Witnesses, take your seats at the front, please. We're going to get started.

First of all, I want to welcome Mr. Matthew Holmes from the Canada Organic Trade Association. He's the executive director. Welcome, Matthew.

We also have from Winnipeg, Manitoba, the Western Grain Elevator Association. There are four folks sitting around the table whom I'd like to introduce: Richard Wansbutter, consultant, Viterra, and also the chair; Carsten Bredin, assistant vice-president of grain merchandising, Richardson International Limited, and also a member. We have also Wade Sobkowich, executive director; and Jean-Marc Ruest, senior vice-president of corporate affairs, general counsel—I see you're smiling; I didn't do very well on that—Richardson International Limited.

Welcome to each of you for joining us. We appreciate that you would do this by teleconference. We'll open up with the first 10-minute statement.

Mr. Holmes, please.

4:30 p.m.

Matthew Holmes Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, and honourable members of the committee. It's a pleasure to appear before you again and to see some new faces as well.

My name is Matthew Holmes, l am the executive director of the Canada Organic Trade Association. l will be providing you today with our perspective at this time on the comprehensive economic and trade agreement between Canada and the EU.

The Canada Organic Trade Association is the membership-based representative group for Canada's organic business community. Our membership and our elected board of directors represent organic farmers, manufacturers, inspectors, exporters, distributors, and retailers. Our mission is to promote and protect the growth of organic trade to benefit the environment, the public, the economy, and farmers.

In general, we view progressive trade measures as a means to furthering our goals of expanding and strengthening the organic marketplace.

Today I'm going to begin my remarks with a brief overview of Canada' s organic market, which is now the fourth largest in the world. l will then cover Canada' s organic equivalency arrangements with our major trading partners. These are essentially mechanisms for trade facilitation which fit closely with the objectives of the CETA agreement. l will conclude with some of the lessons our sector has learned from the implementation of these arrangements, which l hope may serve as guidance in the coming months as the CETA is finalized and assist in the objective of facilitating more exchange between Canada and the EU.

As I mentioned, Canada is now the fourth largest organic market in the world, and thus a major destination for the U.S. and Europe. The top country markets are the U.S., Germany, France, Canada, and the United Kingdom. The total world market is valued at about $63 billion per year, and it's growing rapidly.

Of the world's organic market, 96% is found in North America and Europe, and so obviously, with new trade ties with Europe, we're very interested in seeing some of those market connections strengthened. Canadian organic farmers and processors need better access to these marketplaces, particularly for the organic sector.

Here at home our organic market tripled in size between 2006 and 2012, growing right through the recession, and is now valued at over $3.5 billion per year. Our research on exports has also found that these have tripled over the same period and are estimated at $458 million per year, which, in comparison, is more than Canada's export of live or frozen lobster, and more than the projected market for Canadian pork in Europe under this new deal.

We're also growing at the producer level. Our recent analysis of the census of agriculture shows that between 2001 and 2011, while total farms in Canada declined by 17%, organic farms increased by 66.5%. On average, when compared to all farms in Canada, organic farmers are younger, have higher earnings, and create proportionally more jobs in agriculture. We now have approximately 5,000 certified organic farms, handlers, and processors. Whatever your personal views on organic agriculture are, there is absolutely no question that it is among the fastest growing agricultural sectors in the country, and holds massive economic potential for agriculture in Canada, particularly when we're talking about Europe, which is home to the highest consumers of organic in the world.

Last week l had the privilege of meeting with the honourable Robert Goguen in Moncton, as he announced $500,000 , on behalf of Minister Gerry Ritz, for the Canadian organic sector in order to enable us to maintain our rigorous standards and to promote Canadian organic products here at home, and in these critical export markets through the AgriMarketing program.

Additionally, one of the major policy tools for opening markets for Canada's organic sector has been organic equivalency arrangements. Canada has been a pioneer in establishing these agreements on mutual regulatory and standards recognitions with our major trading partners starting in 2009 with a Canada-U.S. deal.

Canada followed up on this in 2011 with another first, announced by ministers Fast and Ritz, an organic equivalency with the EU, making us the only country in the world at that time that could supply 96% of the world's organic markets with one domestic certification. Canadian operators had a significant edge.

Like the previous Canada-U.S. deal, the Canada-EU deal recognizes the organic standards and regulatory oversight of each jurisdiction. It allows Canadian organic products entry to the member states of the EU without having to take on a second redundant and expensive certification or inspection.

Canada's organic equivalences are thus major milestones for our sector, but not just for our producers here at home, but for the entire global organic market. We now have many others who are following in our footsteps to try to strike similar such arrangements.

Here begins what I'll term my cautionary tale for those who will implement the CETA.

In 2011 when the EU published the final text of its regulatory amendments recognizing Canada's organic system, they put in place highly restrictive rules of origin. In good faith, Canada did not do the same thing and opened our market to all organic products originating from the EU. The result in essence is that through this deal, Canadians have become character actors, hewing wood and drawing water, only to be able to engage in commodity exports while buying value-added products from Europe. Single ingredient products and a few multi-ingredient products that are exclusively 100% Canadian ingredients can go to the EU market. Meanwhile, value-added products made here in Canada by Canadian companies with Canadian ingredients that are perhaps sweetened or flavoured with cinnamon or vanilla have to go through a secondary full inspection of all their ingredients, down to origin. It's quite costly and not very conducive for business.

I want to highlight how this equivalency with the EU also became a model for two other jurisdictions. Switzerland is a very important market for us, particularly for organic wheat and oilseed. Soon after the arrangement with the EU was struck, the Swiss came and began discussing a similar equivalency with Canada. We soon reached an agreement, but in deference to their neighbours, the Swiss reaffirmed the same restrictive rules of origin that are in place in the EU-Canada deal.

Meanwhile, the U.S. and EU were also discussing organic equivalency. These are the two largest world markets clearly and this is a striking scenario, very similar to the situation we find ourselves in now. The Americans basically saw the pitfalls of Canada's deal with the EU, and within six months announced a comprehensive trade equivalency for organics with the EU, which did not have the same restrictive rules of origin for products from the U.S. These differences are still in place two and a half years later.

Major Canadian businesses with global organic sales have told me that a second-class deal for Canada has made it almost impossible for them to give preference to their Canadian plants and jobs, while it has strengthened their U.S. lines. More Canadian lines are now at risk. Two and a half years after the original arrangement, Canadian manufacturers have to make a difficult decision if they want to continue to sell to the EU.

I spoke just this morning to a B.C. company that faces moving dozens of jobs and millions of dollars' worth of sales to a U.S. facility, largely because of this specific gap in our organic equivalency.

I want to pause here, though, and commend particularly the hard work and diligence of our Canadian officials who have worked on this file. This happened through no fault of their own. Agriculture Canada and CFIA have really dedicated time and effort to this issue. However, for all of their effort, the Europeans have not responded with action on this.

In summary, Mr. Chair, the Canada Organic Trade Association does not see explicit dangers or concerns for the organic sector in the CETA right now. However, based on our recent experience, we are concerned with how it is implemented and that the deal that was announced for Canada is in fact the deal that Canada gets.

When reviewing the CETA, we note the following favourable elements.

CETA makes commitments to increased regulatory cooperation and that standard-setting bodies will work more closely together. This aligns with the organic sector's needs and builds on our organic equivalencies.

CETA indicates it will not change the farmers' right to save and replant seeds of a protected variety on their own land under the federal Plant Breeders' Rights Act. The organic sector is supportive of the right to save seed, since there is not enough organic seed available in Canada to meet current demand and our growth forecasts. We have very unique needs to ensure the genetic integrity of our seeds and some of the best optimized characteristics for organic production.

As well, I see the CETA agreement spent some time on the rules of origin and how this will be addressed for multi-ingredient products. It's very important that this be scrutinized and implemented carefully.

In conclusion, our organic maple raw commodities and even organic meat sectors will certainly see benefits from the CETA as envisioned, but at this time I cannot say that our organic manufacturers and value-added sector will see any improvement in market access. Unless the organic equivalency with the EU is fixed and prioritized, we will continue to have an agreement in name only while technical barriers to trade are the real order of the day.

On that note, I thank you for your time and consideration, and for the opportunity to appear before the committee again.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you, Mr. Holmes, for your timely presentation.

I'll now move to the Western Grain Elevator Association. It would be very much appreciated if you could identify yourself, please.

You have 10 minutes.

November 28th, 2013 / 4:40 p.m.

Richard Wansbutter Consultant, Viterra and Chair, Western Grain Elevator Association

Good afternoon, Mr. Shipley, and thank you.

I'm Richard Wansbutter representing Viterra. As you have already introduced the members, I'll skip over that and move very quickly into the substance of the brief presentation.

I'd like to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food for allowing this opportunity to speak to you today. It is our pleasure to represent the Western Grain Elevator Association and to be able to appear before you today to discuss the Canada-EU trade deal and its impact on the Canadian grain sector.

I'll give you a quick note on the association. We represent seven farmer-owned public and private grain companies operating in Canada. Together we handle over 90% of western Canada's bulk grain exports. I have a few short introductory remarks regarding the agreement, and then we can try to answer questions that you may have.

As a country dependent on international trade, certainly when it comes to agriculture, the WGEA members fully support the government's significant efforts in concluding this deal. Diversifying markets and expanding market access in key areas around the world will pay long-term and significant dividends for our agricultural exports and the Canadian economy.

I'd like to highlight a few of the key elements and benefits of the trade deal that we see coming about.

There will be additional duty-free access for wheat sales, and that should immediately result in approximately $20.5 million in year one. There will be the potential for increased canola oil shipments with the elimination of tariffs, which is estimated at approximately $90 million. There will be significant increases in pork and beef exports, $600 million on the beef side and $400 million on the pork side.

Why we raise this is that with increased value-added exports on the beef and pork side, this will definitely increase the feeding of feed grains on the Prairies. The elimination of tariffs on processed pulses and exports, such as flour, fibre, wheat, and starch will result in increases. On the commitment to improve consultation and cooperation around biotechnology, it's important to emphasize the need to make progress on the approval processes in order to ensure that Canadian grain and oilseed exporters can gain the full benefit of the Canada-EU trade deal.

At the risk of repetition, this trade agreement with the European Union will improve market access providing significant benefit to our members, farmers, and to Canada.

Thank you very much.

We're certainly open now to questions.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We'll now start our first round of questions, starting with Mr. Rankin.

Welcome, by the way, to our committee.

You have five minutes, please.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

Thank you. I appreciate it very much. I'm pleased to be here.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses.

In the short time available though, I will concentrate my efforts on Mr. Holmes, who is the executive director of the Canada Organic Trade Association.

I was struck by the statistics that you provided. I was struck by the enormity of the industry you represent, sir. I had no idea that it's a $3.5 billion industry. You said that it tripled between 2006 and 2012. I can tell you that as someone from British Columbia, I don't need persuading of its importance, particularly in Victoria. It's a very robust sector, indeed.

I was struck by a couple of things you said, and on which I'd like you to elaborate. There appears to be an equivalency agreement that we have with the United States which was entered into in 2009, yet the Americans have an equivalency agreement with the EU. I think you said that they have an edge on us. I can't understand in light of all of the CETA changes why that hasn't been rectified.

Can you explain why we haven't been able to catch up?

4:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association

Matthew Holmes

It has been a frustrating couple of years.

We were first actors here. We really defined the space. The Canada-U.S. equivalency struck in 2009 was a landmark. It really caught the attention of the entire world because it was a new paradigm. In fact, when Prime Minister Harper and President Obama declared and announced the creation of the Regulatory Cooperation Council, they used this 2009 organic equivalency as a precedent and model that they wished to see replicated in other sectors as well.

It was a very important model, one which we in Canada aggressively pursued with other trading partners, in particular the EU. In 2011 we were the first to strike a similar deal with them. However, when it was promulgated and put into the EU legislation, the language they used limited that to Canadian origin exclusively, so once you get into a multi-ingredient product, that becomes prohibited. The Americans were a little slower out of the gate. They had the agreement with us, but they were still negotiating with the EU. They saw what happened with our agreement.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

They stole a march on us.

4:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association

Matthew Holmes

They pulled a fast one.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

It's almost ironic that we should send our products to the United States, have them repackaged, and then sent to Europe to evade the rules. It's crazy.

4:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association

Matthew Holmes

That is quite possible within this scenario and fully legitimate within the agreement between the U.S. and the EU, so it really pulls us out of the mix. It sidelines us. Some companies are facing.... We've all heard this for many years now, the exchange rate and the currency. Some of those issues are facing businesses in Canada. If they have multiple lines in the U.S. and Canada, it's a very difficult decision to prioritize.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

I really appreciated your analogy when you talked about the restrictive use of origin rules, in saying that Canadians are basically hewers of wood and drawers of water because our value-added producers simply can't make it happen for themselves. That's of course where the jobs are and where the economic growth is going to be.

What can we do about this? Tell us what your views are about how CETA might be able to address this or not.

4:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association

Matthew Holmes

I think CETA is the perfect backdrop. There's a lot of goodwill in the room right now. I think there's a need to prove that there's commitment to this on both sides. We understand we're a small sector, but we have an agreement that predates the CETA. It's founded on the same principles and yet we're unhappy with it. It's not really working. We've worked closely with the market access secretariat. They're an excellent bunch. They're really dedicated. This is on their priority list, but we haven't been able to elevate the conversation enough in Europe to really make this happen for us. I think using CETA for our purposes would be to look at getting the organic equivalency with Europe finalized, get the same deal the Americans have, and then everybody will benefit from the new approach that CETA offers.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

It's interesting. Your success has occurred before CETA, if you will. Maybe bilateral arrangements separate from CETA could also be productive. You've praised the officials. I think that's good. Maybe you just need to do it irrespective of where CETA goes.

4:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association

Matthew Holmes

It's outside the CETA process. It's not housed within the agreement. It's an arrangement; it's not a technical agreement. We are able and we are pushing for that still at the DG AGRI, Directorate-General for Agriculture and Rural Development, in Brussels.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

Congratulations on all the success of your industry.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Mr. Rankin.

We'll now move to Mr. Payne for five minutes, please.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here as well as appearing by video conference.

I think everyone has said that this is a really important agreement for Canada and for our agricultural sector.

Certainly, Mr. Holmes, you've talked about some of the issues on the value-added side of things. Could you tell us a little more about the opportunities that are given to you, your organizations, your farmers, producers of organic products, to be able to enter Europe, and what that would mean? Do you have any numbers that would suggest how much product would be able to go in, the values, and that sort of thing?

4:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association

Matthew Holmes

We're building numbers. As I mentioned, we have $458 million in annual exports from Canada. That's our best analysis of the available data. The issue is that wheat is wheat is wheat in much of our tracking. WorldCat and other forms of tracking agriculture products don't disaggregate organic from them, so we've had to do our best to try to calculate that.

Canada was one of the first, if not the first, to break out organic products at the HS code level. We currently track about 60 organic commodities coming into the country; however, we don't track any going out of the country. After the U.S. and Europe struck their arrangement, the U.S. started tracking some of their exports so they could better manage and monitor the impact of the trade arrangement they have.

I know the CETA document talks about classification and about better tracking of trade. We would certainly support that. We think it's really valuable to show Canadians the impact of these trade agreements directly on the agricultural sector.

For our own purposes, we organize a variety of programs. I was at a producer conference last week on the east coast talking about opportunities. We go to major conferences in the west. We bring producers, brokers and traders with us to foreign missions and trade shows and introduce them to potential buyers. We do everything we can to get them into a good relationship and build that Canadian export dollar.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

In terms of our negotiators, did you have any direct access to them throughout this process on CETA?

4:50 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association

Matthew Holmes

With the market access secretariat, we definitely liaised, and I sit on the industry advisory committee, but we didn't formally consult on the CETA, because we did have this organic equivalency that at the time seemed to be moving along well.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

I think Minister Fast announced the other day that our Canadian embassies should be working with the agricultural sector to create other opportunities for Canadian products. I want to get your views on how our embassies can help out, either on the ground or through negotiations. They obviously have a much better insight into the countries in which they're established and the partners who might be available to us.

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association

Matthew Holmes

We've been seeing the term "economic diplomacy" in the last couple of days. I've never been in the development sector. I've only been on the economic side, and I've seen the tremendous benefit that our consulates and embassies provide in that regard. They have a network of businesses, and they do a lot on the ground to help our people get to market. I have a board member in Hong Kong right now, and there are consular staff assisting with some of the business connections that she needs to make. We've always been impressed with their network, their knowledge, and their commitment. It's always been on the economic side, and we hope to see that grow and be focused. I've never seen any tweed jackets, though.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Wansbutter, I wonder if you could make a comment on that response. How do our embassies and our people on the ground help to sell our products and make contacts?

4:55 p.m.

Consultant, Viterra and Chair, Western Grain Elevator Association

Richard Wansbutter

I think Mr. Holmes is quite accurate, and I would certainly support his statements.

Whenever we're trying to access international markets, you will have glitches in the system. For example, when we had an issue in and around blackleg in canola, we ran the risk of having our exports of canola to China restricted or stopped altogether. The market access secretariat was on the ground within 48 hours. Through the efforts of Fred Gorrell and the secretariat, as well as the minister, the embassy staff out of Beijing were able to address this. We have pretty well unimpeded access to that market. This is a huge benefit.