Bill C-11 Committee on Feb. 28th, 2012

[Michèle Clarke]

Yes.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

If I'm taking notes, I can keep those, and I can refer back to them in later courses. That's not what we're talking about—

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

We have a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

A note doesn't mean a handwritten note. It means—

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

This is debate, once again, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

It means something that was distributed as part of your class notes.

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

No, sorry, Mr. Angus.

Mr. Armstrong.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

I'm just clarifying what a note is. I don't have to destroy those.

[Michèle Clarke]

If you're referring to the course note, the investment of the institution to produce and prepare for these particular courses—it doesn't make any sense to destroy those after 30 days. They're reused. They're reused for other online courses for other classes. It's not an efficient use of the materials to destroy them after 30 days.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

I'm going to move along to Ms. Andrew, as a representative of school boards.

As a school principal, I had to purchase educational resources, but I think you would acknowledge that teaching is different now. Before, teachers were responsible for teaching a course or a subject.

I think most school boards in the country have switched the paradigm to one where the teachers are now becoming more responsible for the learning of students and showing that all of the students in the classroom are learning. I think you'd agree with that, would you not? Is there a shift in that direction?

[Cynthia Andrew]

I would suggest that's accurate, yes.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

As a teacher, you're required now to do more individualization of classes. You're trying to get more resources to actually meet the needs of individual students, whether they have severe disabilities in the classroom or whether they're a high-achieving student. You try to individualize that instruction. That requires the purchase of special technology maybe for students who are disabled. It requires the production of special resources for students who may be achieving to enhance that learning. Is that accurate?

You guys are facing a much greater cost now than you would have in previous ways, because of the way teachers are actually teaching individualization of the course material that they didn't have to do before.

[Cynthia Andrew]

The costs that are increased for that purpose will be reflected not only in curriculum but will be reflected in staff and infrastructure as well, but yes....

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

This legislation will clarify a lot of the details on that—

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

Briefly, Mr. Armstrong.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

This legislation will clarify what teachers can and cannot do. Because they have to use such a broad range of resources, it's going to—

[Cynthia Andrew]

Yes.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

—be a real guide to teachers of what they can and cannot do.

[Cynthia Andrew]

What it does is provide a legislative framework for teachers to follow that did not previously exist, and that's important for clarity.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Glenn Thibeault]

Great.

Thank you, Ms. Andrew and Mr. Armstrong.

Now to Mr. Cash for five minutes.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

And thank you all for being here.

I think it would be helpful, Madame Clarke or Mr. Brulé, to give us a sense of how professors and teachers actually build their course outlines and how they build their teaching techniques for their students, because it seems that what we have in this bill runs very counter to the practices that teachers use today.

Could you just give us an outline of that and how the deleting of essentially their course in 30 days affects their work?

[Michèle Clarke]

I'm going to let Mr. Brulé respond to that as the dean at Algonquin.

[Claude Brulé]

Sure. Thank you very much, Mr. Cash.

Courses for colleges are built from program standards that are established, learning outcomes, and those are passed on to individual courses. So you have a program. Courses are made up of different learning outcomes at the course level. Teachers will select material, either material that he or she intends to use solely in the classroom or that he or she may want the students to have by way of purchasing those materials, whether they are published materials, e-books, or anything of that nature. How they construct their lesson plans will be based on an attempt to achieve those learning outcomes. This will include, possibly, live, in-class lessons, skill-based work, reading material, and a whole host of methods in order to impart or facilitate the transfer of knowledge. Then they assess and evaluate that those outcomes have been met.

So they rely on either textbooks or material they create themselves. That material is purchased by the college and by the students as well. The learning takes place with that material. It's supplemented by anything that can be found within the public domain, for instance, that can be appropriate for that class.

I'm not sure beyond that.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Okay, fair enough. When we talk about the issue of teachers, would they have to rebuild their outlines every semester?