Canadian Heritage Committee on April 24th, 2007

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Nothing in French.

[Pierre Bélanger]

To come back to your question on identity, it is very important, both for francophones outside Quebec and for francophones in Quebec, to understand the reality of different groups. Many Quebeckers believe that outside Quebec, forget it, there are no francophones. It is sad, because we would have the means to get to know the various francophone communities. We could understand our difficulties and we would be much more effective when the time comes to stake our claims.

Your problem is one that we often experience when we travel, obviously. It comes under the jurisdiction of the CRTC. The heart of the debate is really whether or not we want to have a national broadcaster that will allow us to understand not only the different realities of the francophone communities but also those of the anglophone communities.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I can tell you—

[Sylvain Lacroix]

At this point in time, we have the French Ontario television, TFO, that produces Franco-Ontarian dramas and Franco-Ontarian newscasts. We can however say that the bulk of francophone programs come from Quebec.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Generally speaking, Quebeckers are quite familiar with the problems that francophones outside Quebec are facing. Quebeckers wanted to protect Québécois television precisely because they wanted to avoid what is happening to you. We did establish the Société Radio-Canada so that it would reflect Quebec. Fortunately, Quebec is reflected in your area.

Both financially speaking and in terms of your francophone identity, you very badly need for English Canada and English television to recognize that you exist, and particularly as English television is facing a problem. It is more and more invaded by American television. You will no longer recognize yourselves if francophones from Quebec do not help you in obtaining this recognition.

[Sylvain Lacroix]

That is where opinions differ. We are not asking anglophones to produce television programs for us. We are asking Radio-Canada's French-language television to support us and to play its role by helping us produce our own television shows.

I agree that we need to protect the institutions. However, Radio-Canada remains a federal institution, and it must start protecting francophone communities outside Quebec.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Go ahead, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

I thank you for your presentation this morning. I agree that Radio-Canada plays an essential role for Northern Ontario communities. That said, today I am interested in the SRC's need and obligation to represent the Franco-Ontarian community.

How many francophones live in the region covered by CBON/Radio-Canada in Northern Ontario?

[Sylvain Lacroix]

CBON covers all of Northern Ontario as of Mattawa, east to west. Approximately 150,000 francophones.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Are there as many Franco-Ontarians in Northern Ontario as there are people in the Abitibi-Témiscamingue region of Quebec?

[Pierre Bélanger]

Yes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Do you believe the SRC has defaulted on its obligations towards the region?

[Pierre Bélanger]

Yes, I believe so, and not only with respect to our region. In fact, the SRC's problem is that it is increasingly resembling the CBC, which is mainly focused on Toronto; Radio-Canada is mainly focused on Montreal.

As far as we are concerned, it is clear that because of cutbacks and the elimination of the regional broadcasting centre we once had, we have ended up with minimal coverage, which of course you are well aware of. Events are covered only when something catastrophic or exceptional occurs.

I am well aware of the fact that even in Quebec, many regions like the Abitibi-Témiscamingue, and the Gaspé have problems with Radio-Canada. Indeed, these regions have also suffered from cutbacks to regional coverage. They do not necessarily feel that the SRC represents their reality, their challenges, their hardships, their cultural reality. In fact, they feel increasingly less represented by the SRC, because it is more and more focused on Montreal.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

When we studied the future of the film industry, we heard from many people that the SRC's role was to promote the Quebec artists star-system. In Northern Ontario, we have many artists working in the fields of dance, theatre, comedy,music.

Do you think the SRC should play a similar role in promoting francophone artists from across Canada?

[Sylvain Lacroix]

We believe it is important to find a way to do so. How, I cannot say how, Mr. Angus, but there needs to be a way for the Société Radio-Canada to promote all francophone artists from across Canada.

In Timmins, we have a theatre troupe called Les maringouins du Nord which produces two plays per year. The actors themselves write the play and build the set, and perform in a 160-person capacity room. There are eight performances of each play and they are always sold out. If the SRC were to give them a hand, perhaps they could be in a 250-capacity room where they could finally cover their costs rather than being forced to pay out of their own pockets in order to do what they love, in other words, theatre.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

You have made recommendations to improve the relation between the SRC and Franco-Ontarian and Franco-Manitoban audiences. Could you explain your recommendation regarding the need for a quota?

[Sylvain Lacroix]

I do not much like the idea of a quota. We believe that when it comes to national programs as opposed to regional programs, whether it be the 10 o'clock news or Christiane Charette's morning show, there should be a period set aside for what is going on in the francophonie outside Québec, with respect to the Franco-Ontarian reality, the cultural reality, and not focused on tar sands or pollution.

We believe that in this way we could create a solid relationship between the Québécois, Acadian, Franco-Ontarian and other cultures in Canada. We are not saying that we urge the government to tell Radio-Canada what to do and what to say. We are simply saying that since this corporation is funded by government, the CRTC should ask it some questions. And it should say that the CBC will have to, in its own way, for 20 minutes out of a 3-hour program, focus on Franco-Ontario artists and on the cultural and social reality of francophones outside Quebec.

[Pierre Bélanger]

Mr. Angus, I would like to follow up on Sylvain's comments.

In the days when we received better TV media coverage, we produced extraordinary artists, known not only in Quebec but also in English-speaking Canada. We only need to think of CANO from Sudbury, there are many artists, for instance Robert Paquette, as well as modern artists like Damien Robitaille. Thankfully, in Damien's case, CBON radio was there and thanks to competitions, including in Quebec, his songs got aired. But there could be far more opportunities available to artists.

Some of our theatre troupes have a hard time getting exposure because we do not exist in that media universe. In that regard, there remains considerable work to be done. The Théâtre du Nouvel-Ontario, the Théâtre de la Vieille 17 and Nouvelle Scène, in Ottawa, are having difficulty making it to the next level. We have poets like Patrice Desbiens, from Timmins, who is now very well-known in France, in Quebec and throughout the world. Had it not been for the SRC he could never have gotten the recognition he so rightly deserves. There is also Jean-Marc Dalpé, a playwright, who now lives in Montreal and has made a career for himself in Quebec. Those are all Franco-Ontarian artists.

There is a new generation, but as far as we are concerned, we cannot rest on our laurels. We must keep fighting for programs and competitions like Ontario Pop, set up by radio, for them to be renewed each year, in order to give artists a stage to perform on.

Earlier on, you were referring to star-system. We find the situation incredibly difficult to deal with. In fact, what we have should rather be referred to as the no star-system. We would like there to be a forum for francophone artists outside Quebec. They have the talent, all they need is an opportunity to be heard.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay.

Mr. Warkentin is next.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much for coming this morning and giving us your perspectives.

Representing some French-speaking communities in my riding in northern Alberta, I can relate from my constituents that they have expressed the same concerns you're bringing today—that it's great to have a bilingual broadcaster or a French broadcaster in their communities that they can get if they subscribe, but unfortunately it doesn't reflect who they are; it reflects a Quebec reality.

I'm just wondering if we could talk about it a little more. Obviously the current mandate really outlines for Radio-Canada and for the CBC that they should reflect the linguistic minorities and the circumstances of those minorities. It doesn't say there should be a provincial boundary to that expression, but only that it should be an expression of those linguistic communities. Obviously you've expressed that there is some concern with regard to your community, and I would say that the same expression is also coming from my own constituents.

In the Broadcasting Act it is very clear. I will just read it: they are to “contribute to shared national consciousness and identity”. I would suspect it's maybe a coded way of saying they should promote a national feeling of camaraderie between communities of a particular language, and probably even across linguistic lines as well.

Do you believe the original intent of the act was to cross those boundaries as well? Could you talk about how working to this direction might help with the whole issue of national unity and the whole issue of unity across the country between communities?

[Pierre Bélanger]

Indeed, it was part of the corporation's mandate. That said, the best way of doing this is to provide a voice to the various communities. We are not saying that what is being done in Quebec is unimportant or that it should be scaled back.

In actual fact, Radio-Canada suffered egregious cuts and salvaged what it could, but it did cast aside some things. We absolutely need Société Radio-Canada to be very strong in Quebec. There is some creativity in all of the fields; we only need to look at film and publishing, for instance. That said, without Quebec, we would not exist. For there to be real dialogue between the regions of Canada, they need to be given real voices.

It is very important for Franco-Ontarians to know that anglophone communities are experiencing the same challenges they are. It is a reality. Because of cutbacks, television has gotten more commercial, more profit- and production-cost based. Getting the same service throughout Canada is not as obvious as it should be. Cable operators do not all provide access to the same products throughout the country. To really play its role as our national broadcaster, the CBC should guarantee access throughout this country.

Through an honest discussion giving voice to all regions of Canada so they can project their reality, the good things they've done, the grievances they've had and the challenges they've experienced; that is how we can strengthen national unity. It is not by using Radio-Canada as some sort of propaganda tool, as Mr. Chrétien often wanted to do, that you can promote Canadian unity. It will always reflect diversity. That is the very nature of this country. Perhaps we are a challenge or a historical bleep, but that's exactly what it is.

In the field of news, Radio-Canada has always done a good job in that it was despised both by federalists and sovereigntists. During the most recent referendum campaigns, both factions despised Radio-Canada. That must mean that journalists managed to maintain a level of objectivity and to strike a balance.

I think you understand what I'm saying. That is how we can really talk about national unity.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Barring sponsorship, Prime Minister Chrétien probably lived that out in every other capacity of his life.

Maybe it's not the mandate that needs to be changed; maybe it's the carrying out of the mandate when it comes. It seems to me there's a clear expression of intent here in the mandate that this be the reality. The concerns that you and my constituents have should be addressed quite easily within the mandate. I think there's ability for that to happen.

I'm just curious if you think there's anything that needs to be added to the mandate that would be essential to ensuring this type of movement going forward.

[Sylvain Lacroix]

I share your opinion. We believe Radio-Canada has all the tools it needs to carry out its mandate, except for substantial additional funding. We do not believe that it is a ratings- or mandate-related issue. There is a real problem on the CBC side.

On the CBC side, when I hear that they're going to cancel a show because there are only 500,000 or 600,000 people watching it and there are two million Canadians watching American Idol, I don't think that's an excuse. When that show was produced, the artists of English Canada

or of Quebec and French Canada.

had the chance to show what they could do in front of 600,000 people. So we have to stop thinking that everybody should be watching or listening to the CBC, and if we need to have a greater sense of who we are as Canadians, we should be able to go to the CBC.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

I think it comes back to the issue of relevance. Of course, there's the issue of the chicken and the egg--the funding and the relevance. Certainly I think there's going to be debate on what comes first, or how we can ensure that if one comes the other will follow.

We appreciate your coming here and testifying this morning.