Mr. Angus.
Evidence of meeting #1 for Canadian Heritage in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #1 for Canadian Heritage in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I don't have a problem with that because we can't have the meeting without the chair. If Madam Lavallée is concerned that the Conservatives wouldn't show up, you're the chair, so you're there, and we can't hold a meeting without you. I don't think we can hold it with three members without the chair. As long as the chair is there and there's a member from each party, I--
3:50 p.m.
An hon. member
Mr. Chair?
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I was co-chair on a couple of committees. When the chair wasn't there, I chaired the meeting. It doesn't have to be the chair who's there.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
I think I've missed only one meeting when I haven't been chair, but someone has to fill in. I can remember back to when I was first on this committee and a meeting was hastily called. I found that I was the only opposition member at that particular meeting, and wouldn't you know it, at that particular time everyone on the other side for the government was a substitute, except for one. The business that was supposed to be done that day didn't really transpire. If I'd known what was going on, I would have got up and left, and the meeting would have been over.
In fairness to everyone, I think that when you only need to have three members here, that's.... I remember that on that day there were seven. Anyway, it's been moved by Mr. Del Mastro.
I'm sure that you can't amend your own motion. Someone else could.
Mr. Bruinooge.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Rod Bruinooge Conservative Winnipeg South, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to amend the motion first put forward by Mr. Del Mastro to alter the makeup of quorum so that there are at least four members present, including one from each of the recognized parties.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Mr. Chair, I'm deferring on this issue because I believe you have set an excellent tone of leadership on this committee. You have been at pretty much every meeting we've ever had. I'd be very surprised that we'd need to have a quick meeting without you. I think, in the interests of not making this continually partisan, it is a reasonable suggestion, because I would be very surprised, in the circumstances, that there would be a meeting you wouldn't be at, if it were a meeting with a subcommittee and then whatever quorum, because we'd end up having to bring it back to our larger committee anyway.
So I don't have a problem with this amendment.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
There's just one thing. I don't think a meeting can be called without the chair knowing of it. Am I correct? If the chair can't make it, he then designates a vice-chair to be there. As for having a meeting called by a vice-chair and put together that way without the chair knowing, I don't think that would be legal. I would hope not.
Ms. Lavallée.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I would merely like to remind my NDP colleague Mr. Angus that at some of the meetings convened in accordance with the rules, the Chair, a Conservative, decided to get up and leave, and as a result, the committee was paralyzed. I think we need to avoid a recurrence of such a situation. This motion would mean that the Chair and all of his Conservative colleagues would not be able to get up and put an end to the meeting. For that reason, I intend to vote against Mr. Bruinooge's or Mr. Del Mastro's motion. I'd like to see our committee continue sitting even if all of the Conservative members decided to walk out at the same time and in the process, shut down the committee, as we have seen happen in the past. It's not very pleasant, Mr. Chair.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I know that this won't happen with you in the Chair, but imagine if someone takes your place.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Just to put Madame Lavallée's mind at ease, Mr. Angus is correct, actually. The intent of this motion is not rooted in our not wanting quorum if there aren't any Conservatives here. Frankly, if the chair gets up and walks out, you no longer have control of the committee, because the vice-chair comes in, and we have the numbers to obstruct the committee. That's not what this is about. In fact, that doesn't matter. This isn't about obstructing the committee; it's about making sure that every party has a representative here before there's evidence. That's it. There's no sinister plot behind recommending this motion. There's nothing to it other than just making sure everybody has a person here before evidence is received. That's it.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Not to beat a dead dog here, but I just want to reassure my colleagues. I understand what's happened in other committees, but I remember distinctly that we had an issue early in the last Parliament when a number of the Conservative Party members did not want to participate and said they were going to leave, and the chair said his job as chair was to stay here and hear evidence, and the committee went on.
So I cannot see a situation in which our chair will get up and leave to try to stop this committee. I think we need to move forward, because within this committee we have to show trust that we have a chair.... I understand the concerns, but we have set a standard in this committee for trying to find ways to work together, and I think this is a reasonable move forward.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Okay, I'm going to call the question on the amendment.
(Amendment agreed to)
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Now we vote on the motion as amended, which is that the chair be authorized to hold meetings to receive and publish evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that at least four members are present, including a member of each party.
(Motion as amended agreed to)
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Time limits for witnesses' statements and questioning: that witnesses be given up to 10 minutes for their opening statement; that at the discretion of the chair, during the questioning of witnesses, there be allocated five minutes for the first questioner of each party; that in the second round five minutes be allocated to the Liberals, the Bloc Québécois, and the Conservative Party; that in the third round five minutes be allocated to the Liberals, the Conservative Party, and the New Democratic Party; and if time permits, in the fourth round five minutes be allocated to the Liberals and the Conservative Party.
Ms. Lavallée.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I move that we allow seven minutes for the first round, rather than five. Everyone knows from experience that five minutes is quite short. I'm simply making a suggestion. We can discuss this subject without having a firm motion. If we see that the subject has legs, then we can move a formal motion.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
I'm going to speak to that. I don't use my gavel very much, and sometimes people go over on the first round. They might go six or seven minutes, or as much as nine minutes. I level that out. I even that out with everyone around the table. I have found that sometimes when you give somebody seven minutes, then they want to take a little bit extra. If it's going to go seven minutes, I'm going to have to use the gavel to make sure people are done. I hate interrupting people in the midst of a good question. I hate stopping a good answer coming back. I would suggest that we've had great success with the five minutes for the first time. As I say, I don't use the gavel very much. I try to be fair. When it's a good question and a good response is coming, I think if we're only going by the time limit.... I hate interjecting in these things. That's why we are probably one of the only committees that have used five minutes in that first round.
Mr. Rodriguez.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I agree with you. I suggest we stay with the five minutes. I'm not sure if you're supposed to say that, though.
4 p.m.
Conservative