Evidence of meeting #42 for Canadian Heritage in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
If you want to critique the positions of other members, that's fine. But let's not use this as a forum to attack other members. Let's focus on the issues at hand.
Ms. Lavallée, you have the floor.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I didn't attack anyone, Minister, I assure you. I simply recalled what was said here, at the Canadian Heritage Committee. In other words, I'm not criticizing him, I'm recalling that Mr. Del Mastro said, in a way, that he wanted to privatize the CBC. Even in the House, I have heard people say they're afraid the CBC will be shut down, and the Conservatives rose as a block to applaud. There was the recent comment by Mr. Kenney and there have been a number of others. I could list all the things the Conservatives have said against the CBC.
In addition, in the preamble to your presentation, you say you are friends of the CBC, that it is going well and you have delivered the steady and predictable funding that Canadians have asked for. You may have delivered what Canadians asked for, but you have not delivered what "Radio-Canadiens" asked for. In fact, Mr. Lacroix, who was here, is asking specifically for that steady and predictable funding. Among other things, he is asking for the famous $60 million to be part of his budget from now on, so he can stop begging for it every year and waiting anxiously for it.
Are you prepared to make an agreement with the CBC for more than two years? At present it's two years, but can you make a longer agreement, like other countries do, say five or six years, so the CBC can know exactly where it stands for the next five years, for example?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
And what does Mr. Pentefountas think of that policy?
3:55 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
We will invite you back, Minister, or we will ask Mr. Gingras instead.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
When we present our budget in the House of Commons, shortly, you will see our policy on the CBC. As I said at the outset, we made a promise. In 2007-2008, we presented our mandate. It is the mandate we were given by Canadian taxpayers; it is thanks to them that we form the Government of Canada.
We made a promise, and up to now it is very important to us. So there is no reason to doubt that it will continue to be in future.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And thank you, Mr. Minister, for coming. I don't know what it is about your personality that turns our peaceable kingdom into a New York Islanders–Pittsburgh game every time you show up. But you're always welcome to come, and we certainly look forward to seeing you when Mr. Pentefountas comes back, if that's the wish of this committee.
I want to follow up on one of my colleague's questions, to focus it a little more. In 2008 we had an all-party recommendation in this committee about the stable funding of the CBC, including the $60 million.
I know you can't tell us what's in the budget, but is this something that is being heard at the cabinet table, the importance of that funding?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Raised awkwardly, but I get your point. It's well known obviously across the country that the $60 million adjustable fund was something that came out of the 1996 review of the CBC that was done by the former Liberal government. There are two things that came out of that. The immediate one that came out was the CTF, and then in time came the $60 million programming fund, and it has always been renewed on an annual basis for the CBC. That hasn't changed under our government.
I understand the concern. I understand the needs. I understand the request, and as I said, we'll see the politics and the policy of the government when we table our budget in the near future.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
The other question that's outstanding in terms of funding, and Mr. Lacroix spoke to it a number of times, is that as long as CBC is able to continue its access to the Canada Media Fund the way it has done, it will be able to continue to invest heavily in Canadian programming. Do we see any changes at the Canada Media Fund in terms of CBC's ability to access it?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
I'll speak to that first, and then I'll invite Monsieur Blais to comment on this as well.
Obviously the Canada Media Fund is something that our government is very proud of. We think it's a modernization. It's an important exercise, and we're very proud of what it's done. There are certain parts to the Canada Media Fund—for example, the experimental stream, which is a proportion of the funds that are given to the Canada Media Fund over time—that I think over time may have some adjustment because of the kind of programming that's shifting. Look at technology and at what's migrating—for example, the explosion of Netflix, which is about more than Netflix; it is about creating consumer habit. Look at producers—actually I had a very interesting dinner last night with them—across the country and how they are struggling with this question of where audiences are currently migrating. That's going to be an ongoing conversation for the board of CMF about how they adjust that to make sure dollars are flowing to the creation of Canadian content for Canadian platforms. And Canadian platforms are moving because the public is energized and interested all the time with global technology—
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Our decision on the CBC is not going to change. We have no plans to change that. You should know, though, in the dynamic of the Canada Media Fund over time, that the CBC is going to be getting more money from the CMF over time because of the nature of its program.
4 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you.
I'm sorry, Mr. Blais, but they only give me five minutes, and you see how brutal this chair is in terms of keeping order, so I have to move very quickly.
I want to ask about the comments of Minister Kenney. I know it's not for you to respond to what someone else says, but he's a senior minister who says that Radio-Canada lies all the time. His statements were backed up by Mr. Soudas, who said that the CBC reporter never lets facts get in the way of a good story. Part of the reason we had this study was the sense that there was an undermining of CBC.
Are you concerned when senior cabinet ministers and the press secretary for the Prime Minister say that the nation's broadcaster engages in lying when it comes to political reporting?
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
First, I haven't seen the context, but what Jason Kenney said or didn't say is secondary.
Look, it hasn't been my experience with the CBC. As you know—and I've seen it, Charlie, and you've seen it—people debate all the time. Sometimes we pull our hair out and say, “I was at that event and that is just factually not what happened.” That critique at times is aimed at journalists at all kinds of different organizations. Because the CBC is the public broadcaster and everybody pays into the CBC, obviously it is under a degree of scrutiny that other media organizations aren't, and I know the CBC and Hubert Lacroix are getting used to the criticism that comes from the left, the right, the public, from other broadcasters—
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
It is what it is. I'm not going to comment on comments from somebody else.
4 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I just wanted to speak, though, to Mr. Kenney, because Mr. Kenney intervened in a CRTC decision and helped overturn a CRTC decision about an adjacent licence to the CBC broadcast signal in Toronto, at 98.7. He told the would-be licensee that he would overturn that decision, and it was done subsequently. And then Mr. Kenney told CBC they should apologize to the black community of Toronto for having stood in the way of this would-be licence.
I am concerned because it sends a message that any minister can intervene in the CRTC for whatever group. I have a letter from the broadcasters' technical coordinating committee, representing all the major media organizations. It said that if you allow these one-off interventions, it would drastically change the manner in which the rules are applied at the CRTC.
I'd like to ask you this. Do you attempt to hold other ministers in line, not to intervene on behalf of would-be licences to overturn CRTC decisions, as Mr. Kenney committed publicly he would do?
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
You should know that I have, for sure, three, maybe four requests from NDP members of Parliament to intervene on CRTC decisions for radio stations in their ridings, Charlie.
4 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Do you overturn the CRTC? Have you done it, as opposed to supporting it? This was overturning a decision, which is different from saying “I support”. I mean, I support all kinds of licence applications, but Mr. Kenney said he would overturn it and it was done.
4 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Look, if you want to have Jason Kenney before this committee to talk about what Jason Kenney has said about a reporter to a reporter, or what Jason Kenney did or didn't say about diversity in radio broadcasting in Toronto, I invite you to invite Jason Kenney before this committee. I'm sure you--
4 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
You don't intervene on immigration and say you're going to overturn those decisions, but he does on broadcasting.