Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

You decide.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you, Minister, for coming.

Just to quickly follow Mr. Benskin's intervention, when you consider in your mind the expenditure review question—5% to 10%—is that solely on an A-base budget scenario?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

What we're trying to do, as you know, is find $4 billion in savings across the government, and these are not savings of.... The sunsetters have to be included if sunsetters have been considered over a long period of time, but the idea is that over time the permanent cost of government needs to be reduced.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Right, so in your mind, the sunsetters then will obviously be a part of that. Because when I hear about 5% to 10% cuts--or efficiencies, if you want to call them that—you're talking about A-base alone—

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

No.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

You're just talking about the total envelope?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

The total envelope.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That could include the $60 million...?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

If some things.... Take, for example... We have some youth programs that have been sunsetting youth programs for 34 years: are they A-base or sunsetters? Well, technically they're sunsetters, but they are A-base because—

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Because they've behaved as such. I get that.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, so to exclude them because they happen to be sunsetters misses the point of a lot of funds that may be spent in ways that are not efficient.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay.

I quickly have to move on, because I have about eight questions here.

On the second one, you just addressed the part on the War of 1812 and the funding for that. This is not a new funding envelope whatsoever, so you're talking about how each and every individual silo of funding mechanisms could be used for 1812. Doesn't that put a strain on the other programs? For some of these programs that you fund, it's on an ongoing basis. “Sunsetter” is not the right term for them, but you get the idea. Each and every year, some of these festivals.... Obviously they're going to be hit by that.

I mean, you're talking about a small area of the country that's going to celebrate the War of 1812. Without their own funding mechanism, that's going to put a strain on the whole system.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

No.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

How's that?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Well, it may for some, but there is always annually a competition for dollars--for example, in BCAH--the building communities through arts and heritage fund--or the cultural spaces fund. Some of this funding, by the way, is not just through the Department of Canadian Heritage. For fitting up the forts, it's through Environment Canada, so--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay. But what about money...?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Will there be a squeeze? Sure. But every year, there's always a competition for taxpayers' dollars. There always is--

[A voice]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

By the way, there is no limit to the asks and the requests.

So there always is.... But I can tell you that there is a massive demand. There would have been a massive demand for these funds regardless, from the pressure.... But the fact that we've fenced off some specific programming, and that I've made sure the department makes sure there's funding available for specifically the War of 1812, and that they don't get pushed out, is important.

What's equally important is the second point you referenced right there. In each of these funds—in all of them—that will be funding the War of 1812 things, there is always a national scope to them. As you say, all this money isn't just going to get dumped into the Niagara Peninsula. This money is available across the country.

So as opposed to just having a program that funds the War of 1812.... Because the large capital projects are principally in southwestern Ontario, that would just suck up all the funds to begin with. But by putting them inside of the envelope of existing Government of Canada funds, now they fall under the formula that exists for all Government of Canada funds, which means they have to be dispersed across the country--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Yes, but you--

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

--which is good for your constituents and mine.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

But let's be honest.

Let's be honest: there is no great demand in some parts of the country, certainly, or there is none. There may be in mine because the Royal Newfoundland Regiment was involved, but in some areas, there is not. It just seems to me that without a specific funding envelope, they are going to put a strain across all these festivals and events that would not get funding. I don't want to dwell on the issue, but let's take a look at the monument that's coming here in Ottawa. Where is that coming from?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

That comes from funding within our department for monuments and celebrations, and also, through Parks Canada.