Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 6th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Good morning, everybody. We'll get started. Welcome to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage and our study on Canada's 150th anniversary in 2017.

We have with us today witnesses from the National Film Board of Canada, Claude Joli-Coeur and James Roberts. And from Library and Archives Canada, we have Daniel Caron. Welcome to all of you gentlemen.

We are going to begin with our opening remarks, so you'll each have 10 minutes for your opening remarks, and then we'll go into our rounds of questioning.

We'll begin with the National Film Board of Canada, and you can divide your time up however you see fit.

[Claude Joli-Coeur, Assistant Commissioner, National Film Board of Canada]

Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of this standing committee.

I'll make my presentation both in French and English.

My name is Claude Joli-Coeur, and I am the Assistant Commissioner at the National Film Board of Canada. I am joined by James Roberts, the Assistant Director General of the Accessibility and Digital Enterprises division.

We're very glad to have this opportunity to offer our input for your study on the celebrations being planned for Canada's 150th anniversary.

But first, since it's the first time we have met, I'd like to outline the role of the NFB as an institution, its digital shift, and its involvement in commemorating events of significance to Canadians.

Here is a brief reminder of what the NFB is. It's a federal cultural agency established in 1939 to produce and distribute our regional and innovative audiovisual works that add to our understanding of the issues facing Canadians. These works also raise awareness of Canadian values and viewpoints around the world. We are recognized in particular as a leading producer of documentaries, animated films, and interactive works.

Today, the NFB remains a special organization in a rich and diverse audiovisual world. It is a creative laboratory, a leader in exploring areas the private sector has a difficult time getting involved in. It is also a voice for under-represented Canadians, a fundamental tool for ensuring the vitality of Canada's francophone culture and finally, and most importantly, a leading Canadian innovator in the digital world.

Our audiovisual content is 100% Canadian and reflects the country's diversity. It is available in French and English, and crosses all geographic borders. The NFB has one of the largest audiovisual collections in the world and is an invaluable heritage for all of Canada and the rest of the world.

For a few years now, the transition from analog format to digital format has been among the technological changes transforming the media environment.

Now in our fourth year of our five-year strategic plan, we have become the leading Canadian institution in the area of creative and innovative use of digital media. The shift to digital technology has helped us fulfill our commitment to our audience and once again win over the hearts and minds of Canadians through renewed access to our productions.

NFB.ca or ONF.ca screening rooms were launched in January 2009. They are the cornerstone of the NFB's digital strategy, which aims to provide the majority of Canadians with 24/7 access to the film collection.

Over 2,100 films, excerpts and trailers are available for private viewing free of charge on our website. Since the January 2009 launch, we have so far had almost 27 million viewings of NFB productions on various digital platforms in Canada and abroad. The screening room is also available as a mobile phone application and on platforms such as the iPhone, iPad, as well as the Android and BlackBerry PlayBook platforms.

The NFB also plays a key role by marking events that are significant to Canadian society and presenting them dynamically to Canadians. Here are a few concrete examples of NFB projects that have commemorated major events.

I want to describe those examples to you, since they will give you a solid idea of how the NFB is getting involved in those major events that help strengthen all Canadians' pride and sense of identity.

To mark Quebec City's 400^th anniversary, in 2008, the NFB produced an innovative 3D film, Facing Champlain. Thanks to a partnership with the Musée de la civilisation in Quebec City, that film has been streamed daily since 2008. All schools, children and tourists inevitably drop by and watch that NFB production.

We also teamed up with the National Battlefields Commission to mark the 100^th anniversary of the Plains of Abraham Battlefield Park with the film My Park, My Plains, which has also been streamed since 2008.

Also, in 2008 we joined the Department of Veterans Affairs, National Defence, Rideau Hall, the Canadian War Museum, and the Royal Canadian Legion to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the armistice. We did a multi-platform project, and our film was screened in schools across the country, theatres, on television, and on the web.

In 2010, we were at the Canada Pavilion during the Shanghai World Exposition. For that occasion, we produced a wonderful movie, which was seen by 6.4 million people. Surveys indicate that this film was seen by the Chinese as a major event to remember Canada by.

In 2010 we explored new ways of celebrating sports in Canada in the context of the Vancouver Olympics.

In partnership with VANOC, we contributed to Canada's first Cultural Olympiad Digital Edition, Canada CODE. It was a national open-source website that let Canadians, wherever they were, help create a collective online portrait or mosaic of the country. This online souvenir album was accessible to everyone and was displayed on sites celebrating the Vancouver Games.

To ensure maximum participation, and especially to introduce young people to new media, the NFB organized over 60 online storytelling workshops in schools and community centres across the country, including in official language minority communities. An educational guide was also produced so that teachers could incorporate Canada CODE into their curriculum.

It is in that spirit that we intend to develop, over the next few years, a number of projects aimed at highlighting historical events that will lead up to the celebration of the 150^th anniversary of our Confederation.

Next year we'll be celebrating the Diamond Jubilee of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. In preparation for the occasion, the NFB is currently working on the souvenir DVD, which will include two well-known films from its collection—Royal Journey, 1951, and Canada at the Coronation, 1953—as well as a new production, The Portrait, where we're filming the painting of the portrait of the Queen, which will be disclosed next year.

The NFB has several projects planned to mark the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812. We are planning to co-produce an interactive project on the Battle of York. A DVD box set containing productions from our collection and an educational project are also in the works.

The Royal 22^e Régiment, whose 1914 creation was the determining factor in the integration of francophones within the Canadian Forces, will turn 100 in 2014. We are currently working on a documentary on the regiment in order to commemorate that important anniversary.

In 2014 we'll also commemorate the 75th anniversary of the Second World War and the 100th anniversary of the First World War. The NFB's vast, priceless collection of films about these two global conflicts could be distributed on multiple platforms to mark these anniversaries and help increase public awareness.

The NFB will also turn 75 in 2014, and we have a number of projects planned to mark that anniversary. We intend to get involved in the Pan-American Games Toronto will host in 2015. We also want to commemorate the 50^th anniversary of the Canadian flag in 2015. Our collection actually contains a special film on the first raising of the flag in 1965.

In 2017 Montreal will celebrate the 375th anniversary of its founding. The NFB has been an active presence in Montreal since 1956, and naturally we'll mark the occasion of this special anniversary.

As for the 150^th anniversary of Confederation, we plan to develop a concept akin to Canada CODE, which was tremendously successful at the Vancouver Olympic Games. A mosaic of many audio and visual accounts will provide Canadians with an opportunity to share their part of the country and their vision of Canada in their own way. That vibrant project, created by and for Canadians, will be coming together throughout the celebrations leading up to the anniversary and will be completed at the celebration of the 150^th anniversary of Confederation.

As you can see, the NFB intends to carry out many commemorative projects leading up to the 150^th anniversary in 2017. We are prioritizing partnerships with institutions that come under the Department of Canadian Heritage for all those major projects to mark important events in Canadian history. We also intend to work with as many partners as possible in order to make the most of our activities.

The NFB can join ongoing and evolving projects, to which it can add its artistic and technological expertise through new productions. The NFB can also promote films from its collection that will be put together and broadcast to accompany those anniversaries. The NFB has some hidden treasures for each important anniversary, from 2012 to 2017. Those treasures truly reflect our history. It is important to make that available to today's Canadians.

That concludes our presentation.

Thank you very much. We're pleased to discuss all of these projects.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you.

Mr. Roberts, are you going to be presenting at all?

[James Roberts, Assistant Director General, Accessibility and Digital Enterprises, Director of Asset Management, National Film Board of Canada]

No, there's just one presentation for the two of us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Okay, that's great.

We move on to you, Mr. Caron.

[Daniel J. Caron, Librarian and Archivist, Library and Archives Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee.

My presentation will also be in both official languages.

Let me begin by thanking you for giving me the opportunity to appear today. I am here in my capacity as Deputy Head and Librarian and Archivist of Canada. I want to share some of my observations and comments about Library and Archives Canada's role in Canada's 150^th anniversary, which will be celebrated in 2017.

The 1967 celebrations had a considerable and undeniable impact on our sense of pride and national identity. I would like to remind you that, on that occasion, a new building was inaugurated to house the National Library of Canada. That gift to Canadians was in keeping with the times. A monument built to honour Canada's documentary heritage became the ideal place to preserve a collection of works that Canadians could easily access in their national capital. From then on, an important part of Canada's documentary heritage has been under the same roof, safe in a physical space.

It was also during Expo 67 that we were astounded by rapidly evolving technologies. Who does not remember the very popular telephone pavilion, where, for the first time, a film was projected on a 360-degree screen using technology that was more advanced than even that of Disney Studios? Since then, technology has not ceased to amaze, surprise and especially transform us. Among other things, the evolution of information and communications technology has had a profound effect on how Canadians create, archive and access their documentary heritage. Since those celebrations, times have changed considerably.

Beginning with my appointment in 2009, as exemplified by my participation in the Canada 150 event at the National Arts Centre in Ottawa, I have been working to ready Library and Archives Canada for the 2017 celebration in two ways.

First, I believe that Library and Archives Canada's contribution to the nation's 150^th anniversary should focus on greater access for all Canadians to all their documentary heritage, no matter where they live. To that end, we are working on two fronts. The first is to put into place many partnerships with organizations throughout the country. That would allow for a gradual connection of more Canadian communities to their documentary heritage. The second front on which we work is the optimal utilization of digital technology. That would make it possible not only to digitize and make available more documentary heritage on the Web every day, but also to treat digital documentary production in real time.

The other fundamental contribution the institution should make is preparing to become a modern institution capable of working in a digital environment. It must acquire, preserve, and make available the Canadian documentary production that has been largely digital for some 20 years already.

These two foundations are for me the most attractive and the most pertinent contributions to the celebrations in 2017. Indeed, Canadians have adapted very well to the arrival of the Internet and have learned to make good use of the great many communication tools that are now available.

As in other developed countries, we have flocked in great numbers to social media websites and exchange in ever-increasing volumes our own thoughts, stories, opinions, reactions, photos, and videos, and we circulate within our networks those items we find of interest.

No longer are Canadians simple consumers of information. More than ever, an important number of Canadians are also creators and even curators of cultural content. This development has fundamentally changed the manner in which Library and Archives Canada must execute its mandate. Forty or fifty years ago it was relatively easy to identify the sources of documentary production of historical value and then to acquire and preserve what was produced. It was sufficient to simply acquire the physical document, the object: newspapers, films, photos, books, maps, government records, and so forth.

The extended life cycle of analog materials, combined with the relatively modest level of production and the slow pace in which they were released, made it possible to think that we could somehow capture a large part of it and then distill it into an almost comprehensive collection to be made available to Canadians.

This is no longer the case. So 2017 has thus become a year of celebrations for Library and Archives Canada, but 2017 also represents a milestone in the modernization of the institution. The exponential growth in the number of information resource producers and the subsequent astronomical increase in the level of production make it impossible to acquire all the documentary production. Like never before, the majority of Canadians are now actively participating in the process of telling their stories and documenting their lives.

Library and Archives Canada must adapt and consider the new sources of documentary production and their widespread democratic distribution.

Our mandate offers us all the necessary flexibility to meet this adjustment that will permit us to become an institution of the 21st century of which Canada could be proud. Identify, acquire, preserve, and make accessible the best possible representation of Canada's documentary production in all formats, from all sources.

As well, thanks to the digital age technology, we can gradually transcend our historic geographic challenges by making this heritage accessible to all Canadians. In fact, in 2017 we will permit all Canadians here and in Canada and around the world to access a quantity, without precedent, of their rich documentary heritage, past and present, any time.

Nowadays, the privileged place of consultation for Canadians to access their documentary heritage is less and less a physical place like a library or an archive. If there remains a place of consultation, these are found among other connected places and become more and more places of animation and interpretation. For more and more Canadians, it is on the web that they expect to find their documentary heritage. Moreover, the current documentary production of Canadians is increasingly, if not exclusively, created in digital format and stored in digital repositories somewhere and then downloaded from the information cloud.

Information produced by the government doesn't escape this widespread societal tendency. Presently, government records are produced in digital format. Library and Archives Canada intends, by 2017, to gather government records through the use of a digital portal and to preserve them with the help of a trusted digital repository that meets international standards. In doing so, we will be playing our national role by making the transition to digital just in time to celebrate Confederation's 150th anniversary.

Mr. Chairman, I would now like to underscore a number of more targeted initiatives that Library and Archives Canada is leading at present, which reflect at the same time not only our society's transition from an analog to a digital environment, but our readiness for and contribution to the 150th anniversary of the country.

First, modernization at LAC is going well and placing us in a better and better position to deal with the changes brought about by the digital environment. We have reviewed how we identify, acquire, preserve, describe, and create access to our documentary heritage. All of these processes are now part of a framework for determining how well they reflect our society itself, what we call the whole-of-society approach. This new approach underlines the way we will be conducting all our main lines of business at LAC.

I will give you a quick example. Given the environment in which Canadian society is evolving, we have widened our societal watch to better identify the documents we should acquire in order to reflect not only the documentary heritage that has been created, but also to understand the context of how that heritage is created.

This is a transparent approach, one in which we are working collaboratively with a number of different players in Canadian society, taking into account the vast range of experience and expertise they offer. We hope Canadians will be able to celebrate not only their 150th anniversary but also their 200th and their 300th, with ready access to the documentary heritage created today and in 20, 50, or 100 years.

Next, and equally important, we are gradually making our holdings accessible to a greater number of Canadians. Our efforts in this area are targeted towards 2017 and beyond, but with a view to celebrating 2017, we will of course be making the extra effort to validate our heritage. The Lest We Forget project was a beacon for us in terms of programming that was not restricted by geographic location and that made excellent use of the entire network of public libraries across Canada. This great success demonstrated the importance of our military heritage using digital technology, with both documents and a step-by-step teacher’s guide to related workshops easily available online. Through this program students are able to access more than 5,000 military records from individual soldiers, doctors, and nurses who served in the First World War or of those who were killed in the field of battle during World War II.

In addition, the number of libraries that participated in the project doubled. The Lest We Forget workshops are now offered from one end of the country to the other. Over the last six months, more than 25,000 records have been downloaded from our website. I think these kinds of results augur well for the future. For 2012, we are working on similar projects based on the themes of immigration, first nations, and transportation. Each year we intend to create and organize programming based on new themes. By 2017, Canadians will have enhanced access to a large part of the documentary heritage that has shaped their history.

Other projects under way include the digitization of tens of thousands of portraits and photographs, which will be accessible online using new descriptive approaches that will make them easier to find. As well, Library and Archives Canada recently completed the digitization of the first maps of the Yukon, rendered in the late nineteenth century by the renowned surveyor William Ogilvie. Previously, these maps were not available at any library in the Yukon. A couple of weeks ago, I received a message of encouragement from a librarian in Whitehorse who congratulated us on the initiative and invited us to keep moving in that direction.

I would also like to stress that we are moving further away from the concept of a traditional institution, one that would serve as a stand-alone monolithic entity solely responsible for providing Canadians with access to documentary heritage. To that end, we are actively participating in the emergence of the Pan-Canadian Documentary Heritage Network. Along with our provincial and territorial counterparts, and partners in the academic and civil sectors, we are working hard on joining our forces. Our goal is to share our knowledge in order to make as much of our documentary heritage available as possible—with the best possible access. These partnerships have already begun to bear fruit. Beyond those I have already mentioned with the Canadian public library board in the interest of making our documentary heritage known, we are also working to improve our practices. For example, we recently signed a memorandum of understanding with the Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec. That agreement enables us to share bibliographic records of Quebec authors published in Quebec and of Canadian authors published elsewhere in the country, thereby avoiding unnecessary duplication.

Finally, we are working with our colleagues at Parks Canada, the National Capital Commission, various museums and other federal partners to promote our documentary heritage. Our contribution to the 200^th anniversary of the War of 1812 is but one example.

Mr. Chair, the act of commemoration, as you know, is extremely important for Library and Archives Canada because it gives Canadians the opportunity to increase their knowledge of Canada's history and its institutions. It is also an opportunity to foster a greater sense of belonging and to encourage Canadians to get involved.

I now want to talk about how Library and Archives Canada should contribute to the celebration of the 150^th anniversary of Confederation. I think the best way to do so is by making Canada's documentary heritage as accessible as possible, while taking into account the context of the times. Fifty years after receiving the gift of a national library in the nation's capital, Canadians will receive an equally wonderful gift in 2017—a digital framework that will help build a modern institution for their documentary heritage. I hope that this gift will be appreciated, not only by citizens from coast to coast to coast, but also by future generations of Canadians who will gain a better understanding of how we adapted to the arrival of the digital information age.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That concludes my presentation. I would be happy to answer any of your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you very much.

Now we will move to our questioning.

We begin with Mr. Gill.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here with us today. I'll start with my question for the National Film Board.

The National Film Board invited productions for a series on Canadian history in 1967 for the centennial celebration. Many of us were recently impressed with John A, so it seems there is an interest in reviving some of our important historical stories.

Will the National Film Board be considering a similar series for the 2017 celebrations?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

It's a little bit early, because we are constantly developing different projects. We don't yet have that plan. Our plan so far is more in building that road to 2017. We produce roughly 100 films a year. In our current production we are approaching different themes that may lead to that concept, but so far we don't have that plan.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

How will the National Film Board be partnering with other Canadian arts and media institutions in the lead-up to the 2017 celebrations? Do you have a plan for that?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

The examples I was giving, with museums or broadcasters—the CBC, for example, or private broadcasters—are things we do on a constant basis. We really believe that to get as much leverage as possible, since our means are limited, we need to do that.

Two years ago we did an exhibition with the National Capital Commission, a photo exhibit in front of the Chateau Laurier. That was a partnership.

I'm part of a committee of the Department of Canadian Heritage, a portfolio organization, where we meet on a regular basis, and every time we can find a way to collaborate with other institutions, we do it.

We have a partnership with the Canadian science museum. We're currently completing a partnership with the Museum of Civilization. We did some projects with the national archives. We're currently working with the new human rights museum in Winnipeg, establishing a partnership for their new exhibit. When Pier 21 in Halifax was inaugurated, some of our films were screened on that occasion as part of an ongoing relationship.

So it's really part and parcel of how we approach a project. The example I was giving you for VANOC, the Vancouver games, was a perfect one. We were partnering with the organization, and that's the way we're able to have so much success.

That's really our approach.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Good.

Would you also be able to share with us the process the National Film Board uses when choosing the productions it produces?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Basically, it's a development. At the NFB we have two production entities, the French program and the English program. Under each production unit we have producers. Those producers are full-time employees of the NFB, and they develop projects that are in line with our strategic plan, our strategic approach of programming in documentaries and animation. The decision is made for each project at the level of the executive producers, and ultimately the director general of each project. That's the normal production state.

Sometimes, when we decide to go...and the projects I mentioned—Shanghai, VANOC, those projects.... When there is national importance the commissioner gives some direction and input, and it's a collaborative approach of all the divisions at the NFB. For example, in production, the English and French program can co-produce. Distribution is involved. That's the process when we all team up to decide to go ahead on some project.

An example is 1812. We are currently doing that interactive project. That's something that was not in the regular mill, but when we saw the opportunity, when we saw the importance of it for the government and the country, it was part of our mandate and we decided to do something special for it.

Shanghai was exactly like that. It was not in our standard production process, but when we were invited by Canadian Heritage and the Cirque du Soleil to partner there, it was an opportunity we could not put aside and we decided to do something special.

But globally, our programming is directed by that strategic plan that was established four years ago.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Caron. Could you tell us if Library and Archives Canada has a plan for dealing with materials submitted by Canadians for the 150th anniversary?

[Daniel J. Caron]

Do you mean submitted by Canadians?

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Yes.

[Daniel J. Caron]

Could you expand a little bit?

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

If Canadians choose to submit any materials that they feel may be relevant for the 150th anniversary, do you have a plan in terms of...?

[Daniel J. Caron]

I see your point.

We have an approach to acquire material. For the 150th anniversary and other events, we have the whole-of-society approach. We look at the material and we decide on the historical value of the material to be acquired by the national archives. It's not a specific plan. It enters into our overall approach to acquisition.

[Parm Gill, Conservative, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Would you also be able to tell us a bit more about the Lest We Forget project and how Library and Archives Canada utilized the network of public libraries across the country to create awareness and participation in the project? Also, given its success, are you considering similar projects in the lead-up to 2017?

[Daniel J. Caron]

The Lest We Forget program is a very good program. It was developed by a professor of history. We adapted it so we could use our material and offer some sessions within 395 Wellington. We decided to expand. First was through the web. We developed a user guide the teachers can utilize to offer the program in various classrooms across the country. It's extremely popular because people don't have to come here. We provide them with the digital files of the various soldiers from their community, so they can build a program.

The other very popular aspect of it is that we have called upon the contribution of the Canadian Urban Libraries Council to work with us in order to be able to offer the program in the major big cities of the country. If I'm not mistaken, it's offered in 10 major cities across the country. Again, we support the libraries in offering some training in preparing the librarians to offer the program. As an example, we launched it last year in Burlington. I was told that within four or five months they had 700 to 800 participants within the city. It is an extremely popular program and an extremely popular approach to reach out.

To your second question, absolutely, we are currently working on developing a similar program for immigration files, for first nations, and for transportation. It's going to continue. We discuss these topics and themes within what I call our stakeholders forum, which is a gathering of main libraries and archives across the country, held twice per year. We discuss what topics are the most interesting for the country. We go into our files and develop those programs with thematic guides and everything.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Madame Boutin-Sweet.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, gentlemen.

Both of you talked about the transition to the digital age, especially you, Mr. Caron. A good part of your presentation covered that topic.

I studied archeology. I am an archeologist. I have to admit that I am very concerned about the material culture itself.

My question is for Mr. Caron.

Your acquisition budget has decreased considerably. In 2009, if I am not mistaken, your acquisition budget was $1 million. In 2011, it is $300,000 or $400,000.

First, why is that? Second, do you not think, with all the events planned that will culminate in the 150^th anniversary of Canada, the budget reduction may make it difficult to acquire important documents?

[Daniel J. Caron]

Our acquisition budgets are fairly stable. I should probably explain how our acquisition budgets work. Yes, there is cash involved. That's probably what you are talking about. However, there is also a lot of material we pay for using tax receipts. That represents perhaps $5 million, $6 million or $7 million a year, I think. This method of payment is used for most of our acquisitions.

You need to understand that acquisitions are made through digital media more and more. That means that the budget you are talking about does not cover the efforts invested into developing a trusted digital repository. That repository is increasingly becoming the way we acquire our government documents, which account for 80% of our business. We are in charge of managing government documents. Most of our efforts go into that. We are developing a trusted digital repository that will also apply to legal deposit.

So we are trying to figure out how we can acquire what is produced in Canadian society so as to be as representative as possible. Documents have not been produced in analog format for a while now; they have been produced digitally. I will give you an example. Legal deposit follows certain rules. We realized that, in order for us to obtain two copies of each publication, a certain number of copies must be produced. In the digital world, it is becoming increasingly common for people to print on demand and not reach the standard figure of 200 copies. So, we don't have those copies. We need to find digital mechanisms to collect that information on the Web or elsewhere.

Those approaches are currently going through a transformation. As for your concerns, I would like to say that we are currently developing a completely innovative method I call the “whole of society approach.” It is being developed with historians, anthropologists, archivists and librarians to try to have the best possible representation of documents produced in Canadian society.

It is completely different. We are used to archives and libraries that receive documents through editors and so on, but all that's finished. That world is still somewhat existent, and we are still a part of it as well, but that is not the direction in which society is currently headed. Everything is being produced digitally, so we need to move forward and change our approaches if we want to be able to build our archives of the future.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

I was referring more to old documents. So the acquisition of old documents could be negatively affected.

[Daniel J. Caron]

No. There are indeed fewer old documents than before. Therefore, we are monitoring the situation and watching for any developments. I have been with Library and Archives Canada for eight years. Sometimes we win, and sometimes we lose. Documents are often sold by auction. I remember certain documents—such as Captain Skelly's diary—we were unable to acquire because private sector bidders could offer more money for them.

We are talking about a market, and a tremendous number of documents are involved. So we monitor the situation and get involved in areas we think are important. We continue to do so in the same way as in the past.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

In both cases, how has the transition to the digital age affected employment within your organization? I assume that people must have different qualifications. Could positions need to be abolished as a result of this transition, in both cases?

Mr. Joli-Coeur, if you....

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

As part of our digital transition, we have a collection of 13,000 films and 500,000 photographs. We have a considerable amount of material we are currently digitizing. So the transition is actually creating jobs. Given the large amount of material, no one in Montreal, or even Canada, was able to take on the job of digitizing our collection. Therefore, we used our own money to hire new staff.

So we have actually created jobs.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

What about the people who were already there?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Over the years, we have had an attrition rate that was generally.... Our number of employees certainly has decreased considerably. We have 435 employees this year, but that decrease in staff was not caused by the digital age. As the parliamentary allocation has been the same since 1995-1996, our purchasing power has decreased every year. We have had to face all kinds of challenges, such as employees retiring.

However, there was no crisis, no major layoffs, with the exception of the cutbacks in 1996 when $30 million was cut from the NFB budget. That was a huge cut.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

But the number of positions was reduced through attrition.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

It was reduced through attrition, but many new positions have been created, including on our Web teams, especially within the team that manages and organizes our NFB.ca platform. It is a fairly interesting process, as we are realizing that young people are bringing new skills to the NFB. We have an age range, but I don't have the specifics with me. We have employees who have been working at the NFB for a long time and are about to retire. However, we also have a significant number of new employees in their twenties and thirties who are changing the face of the institution. Everything is now interactive, and our whole interactive production is attracting many creators.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you very much, Ms. Boutin-Sweet.

Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Over the past month or so we've heard a lot of talk, that when it comes to celebrating the 150-year anniversary, they're pushing out a lot of material for promotion, for telling the stories of who we are. There are several facets.

You at the National Film Board have done certain projects based on certain themes that are fairly narrow in scope. This one, obviously, is—and I guess it's the big reason we're here—to find out where one starts when celebrating a whole nation. There is quite a myriad of stories that have created us and sustain us.

My question is, where do you start when it comes to the 150 celebrations? Let's say you've commissioned...I'll say three films, maybe four. What's the process for doing that? Do you come up with your theme first? Or do you just throw it open to what is out there for you to sanction?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

The approach we have now—and I know that 2017 is “tomorrow”, but it's still five years down the road—is to make the road to 2017 and to develop the equivalent of Canada CODE, which we developed. It was extremely popular all over the country. If we can team up with other organizations, other departments of the government, we could be one important actor in that digital storytelling in which we excel, in which we have leadership, creating interactive works and making tools accessible to Canadians.

We just launched last week an app for stop-motion animation, whereby people can make their own animation films.

James can say more on this.

[James Roberts]

The approach starts with each and every Canadian. We're connecting with Canadians now in a way that we haven't in the past. That includes their having access to everything we've produced, but also having their own voice, whether it's through the formal process of producing films through our studios across the country or through projects such as Canada CODE or other citizen involvement projects like it.

The important stories throughout our history have bubbled up through our process, regardless of how that process worked at the time, and they will continue to do so through the interaction we have with Canadians online or when we meet them in person through all the events we're in every year, or through the meetings we have locally in our regional centres.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

The way we're organizing our content on nfb.ca is also a way for Canadians to get a sense of how the nation has been built over the last 75 years that we have been here. All that content becomes available, and people can see different phases of the story of this country, at least for the last 75 years. That's our approach: making our content available, interacting with Canadians, putting forward new tools, and adding projects.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

With some direction, of course, from the Government of Canada itself, I would assume, as to how the 150 will take shape.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

That will be essential, but we'll align with that direction, for sure. We hope there will be a global plan and that we'll be able to have our way in that approach.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That is, you want a degree of autonomy, to pony up and to—

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Of course, but given our autonomy, we feel it's important for us to take opportunities to serve Canadians. If there is a general approach, we want to be part of that approach; we don't want to isolate ourselves. We want to be part of the fabric of the country, basically.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I hope a lot of people take you up on that challenge and certainly get in there and do their material. Perhaps “challenge” is not the right word, but you know what I mean; it's an opportunity for people.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

To complete that, I'm sitting on committees where we meet regularly on the 150th anniversary, so brainstorming will come out of that. I'm very positive that we'll be able to fashion something that will be exciting.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

It must be a difficult task, because obviously when you're dealing with the 100th anniversary of World War I or the 75th of World War II, it's a little more precise.

Congratulations on your app, by the way, which I have. It works very well.

Mr. Caron, is it my understanding that archives now are becoming more decentralized—can I use that term—over the next little while? Is this a strategic shift for Library and Archives Canada?

[Daniel J. Caron]

It's not becoming more decentralized, it's becoming more organized as a portal for the entire nation. I would go further and say that I am discussing with the Mexicans and the Americans to have an Americana portal, like they have an Europeana one.

We are, in fact, connecting the various archives across the country through the stakeholders' forum to make sure that Canadians will have access to all of the material that we have in this country through a portal. We're working together to have common descriptions, methods, and standards to know what you have in Alberta, what you have in New Brunswick, what you have in P.E.I., and what we have in LAC. We are developing an approach, what we call the agora, where we are discussing—and this has just started—where the physical material should be located, because as we move into the digital, the question will be different.

We have criteria. The question is, where is it going to be most appropriate for consultation, or for preservation—so can you preserve it properly? What is the interest? Is it local interest, provincial interest, or national interest? We're starting to ask those questions collectively with the provincial archives and the local archives.

It's a different model in a sense. As I said in my presentation, we were more of an isolated national archive working—sometimes, in fact, competing—with the provincial archives. So we sat together two years ago, and we said, “We need to work together. This is what is currently happening. Make sure that we know what you have.”

In fact, I did a tour two years ago and I discovered a lot of material that, as a student, I didn't know we had in this country. We have some collections that were buried in Manitoba and nobody talked about it.

Now we're trying to bring all of this to the surface, so all together we can make sure that Canadians—wherever they are in this country—will know where it is, and over time, I think, it's going to be made accessible through digitization, if the demand is there.

That's the approach. It's more of a portal bringing together, under one umbrella, the collections we have in this country.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

For you—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

No, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Are you thanking me for the extra minute you had there?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That's exactly why I'm thanking you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Simms.

Mr. Calandra.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Caron, I just wanted to ask you a bit more about a platform for having organizations from across the country actually feed into you, or a platform for which they actually go about maintaining their important archival information, more along the lines of all the local museums that have tremendous resources and assets in their very limited—in most cases—basements. I know in my riding it's always in their basements and they attempt to keep it in a secure type of environment.

Is there a way that—or are you doing something to help them on how they actually preserve, or how they can actually feed important information through you?

I know you have a lot that you're supposed to be doing, but is there a way that we can actually involve the little—because there are a lot of little local museums that have tremendous archival information that in some instances probably isn't being protected very well.

[Daniel J. Caron]

Well, we're not in the museum business, but all the archival material, as we speak, is being treated the same way across the country. Let me explain.

Through the stakeholders' forum I started two years ago, we're creating working groups across the country to support each other, to avoid duplication, to avoid.... I'm going to give you an example. You may not imagine that it's the case, but it's the case. We have old reader machines, electronic machines, such as the Wang machine. You cannot buy parts anywhere anymore, so you have to go on eBay. We're trying to specialize, each of us, in being able to maintain, for instance, such a machine. We have a network of curators across the country who in fact discuss issues such as how to keep an old book. We offer expertise and support, and we are offered expertise and support, because in some archives they're more specialized in some things.

This network exists. But it's going to take time, because we have a huge backlog. We have acquired a lot of material over the years. Now we're discovering that we also need to make sure that it will be sustainable. This network is working on that aspect of the various collections. Everything will surface at one point, so we're providing that support.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

To both of you, 150 is obviously a lot about celebrating. But it's also about making investments in certain areas to protect our heritage. What types of investments can we make to help you preserve what you already have? I know, obviously, that you have tremendous assets you need to preserve.

You referenced some of the cuts you had in the nineties at the National Film Board. That was obviously another period when there were difficult economic circumstances. Having said that, what types of resources, not only now but from right now through 2017, would you require to actually make sure that your resources are protected and that your collections can actually be used by more people?

[Daniel J. Caron]

We're working on two fronts. There are two broad baskets of investments we are currently making. You probably know that we just opened a nitrate film facility in Ottawa. It was an investment of $18 million. Now nitrate film and photographs are taken care of. The solution is there. The investment has been made. So we can turn to the next element.

What we're doing internally is looking at all the analog material. We have newspapers and everything. We're doing a very rigorous assessment of the quality of the materials and what we need to do to preserve them. We're doing it on a very systematic basis. The next investment—in fact, we're working on it and have the dollars—is a storage facility with compact shelving. It's going to be open probably next year. That's for the analog. We're being very rigorous, because it's a finite environment.

The other piece, which is more difficult, is the trusted digital repository. We're very careful. We're working in a network. Alberta, Saskatchewan, and New Brunswick, I think, now are heavily involved with us in trying to find a solution. We're going to also approach the vendors who create the software. We want to make sure that the software will have some archival function in it, because that's the problem, mainly.

We're very cautious. We're prudent. We're also working at the international level. You probably heard that the Americans, in fact, invested three-quarters of a billion dollars in their electronic records system, and it failed. It was too big. We need to go step by step. We're making the proper investments. It's something that will come up.

I like to give this example. If you look at the chemical formula for paper over the years, you will see that it has changed over time, because we didn't find the right one right away. It's the same with electronics. So we are making investments year after year to make sure we find the proper mechanisms for preserving the digital information.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

When someone says they need more money, the temptation would be to say yes, but we've been very realistic over the last five years in doing our digital shift. We knew we were in difficult times and we did it entirely from an internal reallocation of funds.

We've done our own strategic review for the last four years. We've been reallocating 5% of our budgets, cutting activities, to reinvest in our digital shift. That's something we've been financing by ourselves. We knew it was too big of a demand, and it was unrealistic to go to the government and say we need money to make that shift, so we did it ourselves. We're planning to continue to do it ourselves; we can do it. We have the approach, the process now, to do it ourselves.

However, for the events of 2017, if we want to do something that will be spectacular and will mark the people of this country, as we were marked in 1967—that year I was 11 years old and I remember it as if it was yesterday, all the events and everything—I think we need to devote additional money to have something that will be much more than our ordinary process. That would be great, and we would be ready to team up to make the best use of those special funds.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Calandra.

Mr. Benskin.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Good morning, and thank you all for being here.

Our 150th anniversary is a big deal. It's a huge opportunity to really kind of redefine the relationship of Canadians. I may sound like a broken record, but one of the issues I have and one of the things I keep trying to remind people of, or keep at least in the forefront of discussion, is inclusion, and I guess reparation in some sense, as to the actual contribution of certain groups to the building of Canada, not as immigrants coming here and taking up space, but actually the contribution to what Canada has become.

I guess my first question would be to Mr. Joli-Coeur and Mr. Roberts. What kind of outreach is the NFB doing to let Canadians of the various diverse cultures in this country know that there's a forum for them, if they choose, to start telling some of those stories?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

I'll ask James to complete my answer, but that's something that is essential for us. It's not only part of our outreach, but it's also part of our programming. We devote a lot of money to certain types of programming that deal exactly with that approach, because inclusion and the contribution of new Canadians, the way this country has been built over the last decade, is essential to recognize their fabulous contribution. In terms of production, we devote important amounts of money to those things. And on outreach, I think we can qualify ourselves as leaders in that domain.

James, who is the assistant director of all our distribution, can tell you more.

[James Roberts]

One of the ways we reach Canadians of every cultural community is in their communities directly. It's either through public screenings of our films, where we meet with community groups and come together around the subject of the film or the screening of the film with the filmmaker, with members of the community involved in the subject of the film, that sort of thing.... It's in accessing our films directly in the classroom on a daily basis. The collection of films itself illustrates the contributions of all the different cultural communities that make up Canada. It's across Canada, literally, from coast to coast and in the furthest isolated regions. We're also reaching up into the north right now, not only with films from our collection that document the historical contribution of different parts of our society, but also with new production programs—for example, in the north, in the Arctic, but also all across the country.

We have a number of different projects that involve Canadians all over the country, from the point of view of a program called Work for All, which looks at the different aspects of the workplace. At this point in time we have other programs related to aboriginal Canadians and their contributions, filmmaking programs for young aboriginal Canadians. We're starting up a new program on the issues of mental health across the country in all the different regions of the country.

Last year, or the year before, we looked at the economic crisis and how it impacted all different Canadians from every cultural sector.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I appreciate all of that; it's all great. It's sort of focused on new Canadians.

On what I'm speaking to, for example, you talked about the project you did for the War of 1812. I'm just wondering if within that project there's anything that points to Richard Pierpoint and the coloured corps. It was an all-black regiment that fought in the War of 1812. As my colleagues will probably get tired of hearing, there's the contribution of the black Loyalists in the settling of Canada, and the work they've done over the years.

Is there any kind of work like that being done or intended to be done?

[James Roberts]

In the educational component of what we'll do for 1812, those moments in Canadian history will absolutely be documented or be part of the educational documents and tools we put together. That's absolutely where we go when we get into a project like that.

As far as new production, I'm not aware of something that's happening right now around those issues, but there may well be.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

A project we did last year, Mighty Jerome, about Harry Jerome the famous athlete, is an example on how we approach those subjects. That's an NFB production.

[James Roberts]

They're subjects or people who have been forgotten about.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Adler.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Joli-Coeur, could you outline the budget of the National Film Board for me?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Our budget this year is just a little over $71 million.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Can you give me a breakdown?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

English production is $22 million and French production is $17 million. Distribution costs are roughly $6 million. Marketing, accessibility, and outreach are $13 million. Digital development is $4 million, and internal services are $9 million. That's roughly our....

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

What are the various revenue streams for the National Film Board?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

There are two. We have our parliamentary appropriation, which is the major part of our funding—

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

How much is that?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

This year it's $66.783 million. The balance comes from self-generated revenues.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Can you give some examples?

[James Roberts]

There's the sale of DVDs across the country and internationally; the sale of NFB films to television broadcasters internationally; and different partnership projects we do that bring revenue back to the NFB.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Okay.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

We're not allowed to do any advertising on our NFB website, given our status as an agency, so that's where we have some limitations. But we can partner with other portals that charge, and then we get a share of the revenue. So we have some limitations, given the kind of organization we are.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

That leads to my next question.

I'm looking at your website right now, and without making any kind of value judgment I'm curious about how the head of a private foundation ends up on your website, namely David Suzuki. On your education page the David Suzuki movies are being promoted, but also The Test Tube with David Suzuki. How did that end up there? Is the David Suzuki Foundation paying the National Film Board for being there?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

No.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Chair, I don't know what that has to do with the 150.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Adler, in the remaining minute and a half let's try to focus on Canada's 150th anniversary as much as possible. Maybe that's where you're going with this.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I am, so just bear with me. I'm curious here.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

The genesis of what we did with Mr. Suzuki was an interactive project called The Test Tube. It's an interactive work that we developed with the concept of....

The film that was produced was a private sector production funded by Telefilm, the Media Fund, and Entertainment One, eOne, the biggest distribution company in the country. We were a co-producer of that project, a minority co-producer. We have some distribution rights internationally. eOne distributes in Canada. They released the film theatrically last fall, I believe.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

This is Test Tube?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

No, Test Tube is just an interactive project that—

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I'm just curious how that ends up on the.... The film, I understand.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

No, it's a project that we developed and produced.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Cash.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Well, he's had a minute and a half, and he hasn't got to 150, so can we move on?

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

The witness has to answer.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Well, sorry, but—

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Listen, my constituents would like to know the answers to these questions.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

—it's got nothing to do with 150.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I'm sorry, but I'm elected by the people, just as you are.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Chair, can you rule on this?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Yes.

We usually allow people a good amount of latitude in their questions, especially when we're dealing with crown corporations or departments. Generally, we do want to try to stick to 150, so let's try to get back there if we can.

Mr. Simms, was it the same point you made earlier?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I just wanted to get to the point of 150, but I guess he's saying it's for his constituents. I would suggest he write a letter.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

That might be good enough for your constituents, but mine deserve more than a letter.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

You said you were going to ask about 150, and you were given a minute and a half and you didn't get to it.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

We have to let the witnesses answer the questions.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

No. You're misleading the committee, is what you're doing.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

We've got 29 seconds left for this round, so I'm going to let Mr. Adler finish up.

Go ahead, Mr. Adler.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Okay.

Again, I'm just curious how a private foundation...how The Test Tube could end up on the website.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

No, it's not a partnership with the Suzuki Foundation; it's a project with David Suzuki, which we developed. It's not at all related to the foundation.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Would you be open, then, to private organizations that are involved in the 150 appearing on your website, too? How would one go about doing that?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

If a constituent of mine was heading up a project to commemorate the 150th anniversary of the Confederation of Canada, how would they approach the National Film Board to appear on your website, just as David Suzuki did?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

No, again, I'm sorry, we have no relationship with the David Suzuki Foundation on The Test Tube.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

No, I understand that, and I accept that, but I'm just wondering how someone else could end up also—

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Well, we are always open to partnerships, absolutely. We favour them. It's something we would absolutely welcome, and we try to find the best approach. Again, given our limited means, we always want to leverage. So, absolutely, we would be very happy to entertain that.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Adler.

Mr. Cash.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Joli-Coeur, you referenced a strategic plan that the NFB developed four years ago. How long was that in the making, first of all?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Generally, the strategic plan comes with a new commissioner. Our commissioner was appointed in June 2005, and in the following months he developed this plan.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Was 2015 part of the strategic plan?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

I'm sorry, 2015?

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself here. Canada's 150th?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

No, no.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

It was not part of the strategic plan. Okay.

I'm wondering if you could just clarify the issue of autonomy at the NFB. Canada 150 isn't part of the NFB's strategic plan. We have a government that wants to allocate resources and time, and it sounds to me like some ideological input as well, into Canada's 150. I'm wondering how that impacts the NFB and its autonomy.

You mentioned that if you're going to get involved in Canada 150, actually, additional sums probably need to be allocated for your involvement. It strikes me that this was not part of the NFB's direction, so I'm wondering how it became part of the NFB direction.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

There will be a new strategic plan coming shortly. I would imagine that it will be in the next one because it will be covering that exact period.

In terms of autonomy, I can testify to the committee that we have total autonomy. We have absolutely no interference at all from the department. We have the full support of our minister, but we have never been influenced by anything coming from the department. There was never a call saying we should do a certain kind of project. We have total independence. I've been at the NFB for the last eight years in a senior position, and in my current position for the last four years, so I can tell you that for a fact.

What we do want, though, is to be strategic. We want to get as much focus as possible on what we decide to do to...what's globally going on. That's why we're a little opportunistic doing some projects, which is basically part of our mandate.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

I understand that. You want to, as you say, be part of the fabric of what's going on, and you should be.

When you look at it in terms of the operational aspects of things, how much allocation do you think you're going to need to participate in the way you think NFB should and in a way that gives full voice to the multitude of stories, aspects, and opinions that we have here in this country? What kind of allocation do you think you are going to need?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

It's way too early to put down any figures. Just to give you an example, we did what we did for Shanghai without any allocation from the government. We decided to take an important sum of money because we knew it would have a major impact. We devoted $1 million to that project. We got $500,000 from Cirque du Soleil, and we did a major flagship project. That was a lot of money for us, in terms of our $70 million budget.

We can't imagine something that will have a big impact, so it will remain small, given the overall projects that will be done for 2013-2017. It will really be a matter of what's going on globally and how we can fit that kind of project in with our limited means. It can be a flagship film. It can be a project. It can be a couple of million dollars. It's very early to say.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Listen, there is no question in my mind that the NFB is a major, significant part of how we talk about ourselves and how we talk to ourselves. The NFB has done great work. You have a lot of support in this room, I believe.

I want to ask you, does the occasional veering into big events—you mentioned Shanghai and when we're going to go to Canada 150? Is that a distraction sometimes to the NFB's mandate and main focus?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

No, because every time we do a project.... For example, the project we did for Quebec City, Champlain retracé , was acclaimed around the world, in terms of a new way of telling stories in 3D. That was 2008. We took the opportunity of the 400th anniversary of Quebec, and we decided to do something that would be outstanding, in terms of storytelling and the way it was produced, using innovative 3D. We did the same thing for Shanghai. It was a film, to give you an example, where the screen was three times wider than an IMAX theatre and the same height. We did a film with a new technique of animating photos that was spectacular.

Every time we try to do something, our goal is always to do something that the private sector could not normally do. That's the only reason why there should be a public producer in Canada: to be the trailblazer and produce something that the private sector could not do easily or adequately in the normal—

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Or they would not want to do.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Exactly. So is it a distraction? No. We always take the approach of being innovative.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Young.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

I really enjoyed your presentation, gentlemen. Thank you for coming today.

Mr. Joli-Coeur, I wanted to ask you about an opportunity that exists right now, maybe for the first time in history, to expand on the oral history. The veterans project was so exciting, because real veterans went on camera and told everybody forever what it was like to be at war. It's invaluable for anybody who wants to retell their stories or who has this understanding of them, and it's relatively cheap to do. You sit somebody down, you put a video camera in front of them, and you have it forever. And you can repeat it at a very low cost.

I want to congratulate you for that project and ask what you're doing to expand on the use of oral history in any of your areas of endeavour, and what might be done leading up to 2017 to tell future generations, and anybody in the world who is interested, what Canada is and where Canada is going.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Thank you for your comment on that project. It was very emotional. I was sitting beside a veteran when it was shown at the museum, and the emotion there....

Mr. Young is referring to the project we released on November 11, on the Afghanistan soldiers from the 22nd Regiment. We were very successful in broadcasting that piece on the Internet, and over the weekend 46,000 Canadians viewed that film. So that's a very good point. Generally our productions are very much focused on people like that.

We are currently involved in a project for which we are documenting the stories of Inuit located in Nunavik, and it uses exactly that approach. People who are going to die in the coming years are being filmed and their memories will remain available on the web. That's a very good point to keep in mind for future projects.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

I realize it's early—it's six years away—but I just wanted to suggest it. I also wanted to ask you if you had any ideas yet for preserving it or if you wanted to consider developing any.

I wanted to ask you about the film in Shanghai, because that was so interesting. You said six million people, so I guess that would be people from all over the world, but mostly from China.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

They were mostly from China.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

What was that film about? What was the purpose? How do you measure its success?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

The film was six minutes long. It was screened non-stop. You have to realize that they have 30,000 visitors every day at the Canadian pavilion. Our challenge was that they had to see that six-minute film and go out so that new people could come in. Our challenge was to tell one day in the story of Canadians living in cities, because the theme was cities. We had a team of photographers who went all across the country, took hundreds of thousands of pictures all over the country in cities. We did an animation film from those pictures, and we had that story in six minutes.

The Chinese were surveyed just after the exhibition. There was a survey taken of their impression of the Canadian pavilion. Six months later, what came out was that what they remembered the most about the pavilion was our film, which was at the end. That's something we were quite proud of, and I think it was a success, since you could say six million Chinese have an idea of what Canada is.

It's still on our site. You can see it on your computer. It's small, but it gives you a good idea.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Do you have any thoughts on a theme for Canada's 150th anniversary?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

At this early stage, it would really be to expand on what we did on Canada CODE.

Maybe, James, you can explain a little bit more what we did.

[James Roberts]

Canada CODE is a project that allowed Canadians from everywhere to document something about their daily lives and their pride in Canadians and Canadian athletes through photography, video clips, sound, music, etc. The site allowed them to upload their personal stories to the site and share them with other participants on the project. The stories were projected at various locations during the Olympics and also on the web.

The idea is to expand on that and capture Canadian stories by Canadians locally where they live and share them amongst ourselves and build on that. We're thinking right now about what that will become.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

Does your system have redundancy to protect the data in case there's a fire in your building or something?

[James Roberts]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Go ahead please, Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the three of you for being here this morning.

My first question is for Mr. Joli-Coeur.

Do you have any intention of creating a kind of inventory or directory of especially relevant films, documentaries and short features as part of the 150^th anniversary?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

That's already being done regularly through our website, at www.nfb.ca. It contains certain specialty channels, and we broadcast theme-driven films.

Mr. Roberts, could you provide more details, please?

[James Roberts]

We create channels, and we create collections of films on various topics. Some of them will certainly be about the 150^th anniversary, but also about other topics that tie in with that.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

We need to get organized in terms of technology. We are selecting films related to certain events or themes.

[James Roberts]

It's all very flexible; we can practically do it overnight.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

My question is for the three of you. Much has been said about the fact that Canadians from all walks of life should be consulted about those celebrations. Will you possibly gather heritage-related information that would be seen as relevant to the 150^th anniversary, be it in terms of archives, documentation or even home movies?

[Daniel J. Caron]

We work with our collections. We do not create or interpret. We try to offer the best possible representation of what has been done in the past. With that in mind, we regularly consult our portfolio partners who provide us with ideas. In addition, our experts tell us where to find the most important parts of the collection related to that. Therefore, we hold internal discussions, but we also talk about those issues with all our external partners. They include archives, libraries and Montreal.

Users help us as well. I want to mention that we have a relationship with our website users. They help us in terms of brainstorming. They visit our website, and we see which areas Canadians are more interested in.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

I would like to talk about the website. I visited it, and it is very modern. I saw that it talks about December 6, the anniversary of the École Polytechnique tragedy, as well as other events.

Mr. Caron, you say you have no opinion. Last week, an article in Le Droit said that losing the data from the long-gun registry was unfortunate. Do you have any comments on the fact that some information may be erroneous? There must be many errors in the documents that were written with a quill on birch bark. What's your opinion on that?

[Daniel J. Caron]

Our omnibus legislation does not apply to that. So I would have to look at the data on it.

In addition, we discard many records because they have no historic value, especially the case files. If we were to keep those, it would be a monumental task.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

As for your website, do you try to consult families?

[James Roberts]

There are several projects, including Canada CODE, that allow people to interact directly with the NFB by telling us their story. Every day, we create many opportunities to talk to Canadians about our films. Our team in charge of public relations and social media talks daily to Canadians who want to share stories and experiences that are similar to what they have seen in our films, and so on.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Okay.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Our producers are present across the country: in St-John's, Moncton, Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Regina, Vancouver, and so on. We have people all over who provide us with feedback on the whole country. We know that there is a lot of variety in the country from one end to the other. It is not made up of only Quebec and English Canada.

We have many projects in the regions and communities, and that helps us get an idea of what people are looking for.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you.

Does each of your institutions have a direction that is specifically aimed at different types of professionals?

I am under the impression that Library and Archives Canada does not address consumers directly, but rather through libraries and museums, among others.

I am wondering the same thing about the NFB. I am very interested in communications, but I don't visit the NFB's website regularly. However, that's something that could be offered as part of a course on culture and society, for instance.

Do you have a specific approach planned for Canada's 150^th anniversary?

[Daniel J. Caron]

The things we will be implementing will develop over the next few months. We serve a fairly specific client base made up of PhD or master's students, and genealogists. We have very specific and particular niches.

However, since I have held my position, it has been my dream for information to be used everywhere. This institution has so much useful information for Canadians that is still undiscovered. I think that people know about only 2% of our collection. The collection itself is huge.

Over the next few months, we will begin by consulting schools. We will try to find out how young people do their research and what their needs are. We are currently implementing a project. On the one hand, that project will contribute to the ideas on the 150^th anniversary. On the other hand, it will encourage more long-term use of our services and resources for all Canadians across the country. Not to mention that this task has been made easier with the arrival of the digital age.

[James Roberts]

At the NFB, we have a strategy that establishes a relationship between us and schools, especially teachers. That's how we reach over 5 million students a year. They watch an NFB film online or on a DVD. We are able to do that through teachers and their participation.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Merci, Mr. Nantel.

Mr. Calandra.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Caron, I know it's early on in the process, but have you already given thought to how to get out to Canadians some of the more interesting pieces you have—not only on the web but also through other media, in 2017 and the lead-up to it? The web is great, but it would also be great to bring into a school or a community some of the things that Canadians haven't seen. Have you started to give thought to how we might do that?

[Daniel J. Caron]

Absolutely. The web is one avenue, but we also want to be present. We call it records on wheels. What we want to do is bring the real stuff, the material. We're using the library network, because there's always a tension between what you put out and how you preserve. Internally, there are always tough discussions on that. We use surrogates. We are working through the library network, but we also want to reach out to the school system. We have some 25,000 schools in the country. We are working on this type of programming. We're trying to identify the most important part of the collections. First nations, immigration, transportation, prime ministers—we develop kits like that. We want to bring it to the people. We already do it for prime ministers. We send materials to the schools. It's something we are doing, and we will be doing even more.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Joli-Coeur, 2017 is a year of celebrating, but the run-up to 2017 is also a time to reflect on how the country has grown up and why we're celebrating. In the archival records, are there things that show how Canada has grown up? For instance, we apologized to our first nations and to Japanese Canadians, but is there film to show Canadians why we apologized and how Canada has tried to put some of our past actions behind us to become a great country?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Absolutely. We have an invaluable source of content for that.

I'll give you the project that we recently launched in early November, which is our Inuit project. We have a collection of 110 films, on Inuit, by Inuit, and on Inuit subjects, at the NFB. These are films that were produced from the forties up to now.

We decided to launch a project to organize those films and to make them accessible as much as possible. We launched a box set of 24 films in November. We have translated, in Inuktitut, 24 films. We have created an online channel in our screening room, with 40 films.

We're translating films. One of our collection of Inuit films is for the Nunavut government for integration in their curriculum.

That's a very good example of how we can organize all of that content to make it available to Canadians so they understand the richness of, in this case, the Inuit culture and the issues they are facing.

These are not only for the Inuit, but also for Canadians of the south. We have a program to distribute those films as widely as possible in the school system in the south—what the Inuit call the south, which is here—so that there is a better understanding by the Inuit and Canadians in the south of each other's stories and culture.

It's absolutely something that we consider in working with our collection: how we can share those stories and how we can make them possible.

With the film on the Chinese....

[James Roberts]

There is a new production on the Chinese in the Vancouver area and their contribution to building the country and their place in Canadian society now.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

A couple of years ago we also did a film on what happened on the construction of the railroad and the Chinese community. That's something we bring back regularly, given the reach we have in the school system, so that young Canadians can also have access to those stories.

We have a variety of subjects like that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Calandra.

Mr. Benskin.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Hello, I'm back.

Mr. Caron, I want to talk about acquisitions a bit. You had mentioned earlier that because of the budget cut—I believe it was from $1 million down to $300,000—it's harder for you now to acquire certain types of acquisitions. They tend to go to private collectors.

If that is the case, what can be done, or what is being done, to at least record the existence of those pieces so there are less holes in our history?

[Daniel J. Caron]

There will always be holes in the collection.

But to correct, I don't think it's harder. It has always been difficult, and it will always be difficult, because when these things go to Sotheby's, there are a lot of very rich people who are bidding.

In fact what we have resolved, at least here, is that an archive in Canada will not bid against another one. We used to. With the stakeholders' forum we've put in place, we're working together. That's at least a good thing.

In terms of acquiring the material, we realize that what's important to us now—and we've also discussed it a lot with BAnQ, in Quebec, because they've faced the same issues lately—is that if we cannot buy everything, we want to make sure we know where it is, that it's well preserved, and that it is accessible.

We also have to be careful in terms of material. The national library and archives is focusing on Canadiana, material that is being produced by Canada. Sometimes people say, “Oh, this is an interesting piece from Louisiana.” It's not Canadiana. We have our framework to work within.

I wouldn't say it's more difficult. I would say we are applying a framework in making our acquisitions to build the most comprehensive collections for the material related to Canada.

There is also a point where we have criteria, which is sufficiency. We don't need to have everything. My archivist told me lately on a specific topic that we have enough. So we're going to work with another archive in the country, if they are interested.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

That leads me to this question. What are the priorities you set, if you're trimming down what you consider important and what you feel you can sort of leave to other archives? What are the parameters?

[Daniel J. Caron]

I would have to go into more detail about the criteria. I don't have all the details with me, but we have a model that applies. So it has to be Canadian; it has to be of national significance. That, for us, is very important. So we are focusing on what is of national significance.

The priorities are where it needs to be part of the collection. There are specialists looking at it and saying, well, there is a void, there is a hole here, so we need to fill it.

The difference with the past is that we used to be reactive, and when your question, Madame, was around.... We were in fact waiting for people to come to us and say, well, I've got this stuff, so you should buy it. Now what we're saying is that we need to reverse this and say, okay, we're going to look at the collection and make sure it's representative as much as possible of all the documentary productions in Canada over time. So what you're going to see soon coming out from our institution is what we call a statement of documentary intent. We will announce that we are interested in this type of material. We're more proactive in trying to build the collection.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Okay, thank you.

I have one quick question. The NFB app is available internationally, I'm assuming. Is there any way of tracking international hits? If you have sort of a rough sense of those numbers, what kinds of numbers are they?

[James Roberts]

The split right now is about half Canadian, half international, in terms of our overall screenings across all of our different platforms. The countries that stand out are France, the U.K., Denmark, and Germany, and the other countries are in the minority after those. Does that answer your question?

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Yes, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Benskin.

Mr. Young.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

I have a question for Mr. Caron, please.

At this committee we've heard a lot about Canadian history, and we had representatives from the Ontario Black History Society, and there are a lot of stories that are untold, but they are fascinating and interesting stories. We talked about William Peyton Hubbard, who was an inventor and was the acting Mayor of Toronto in the 1840s. These are just great stories.

I have an interest in trying to promote Canadian history and tell these stories again. Are there any ideas you have to help tell these stories that remain largely untold?

[Daniel J. Caron]

That's a very good question, and it brings me to one of the points I made earlier: we need to make known what we have in our vaults. Maybe we have material on this specifically and it's unknown because it's not described, not findable. So we acquire material, but it's not necessarily accessible.

So my task and my plan—my dream, I should say, because it's going to be tough to do—is that I want to do a first-level description of all the material we have before 2017. I said three years, but let's say four to five years. It would be at first level, so that would make sure Canadians know what's there, and from there people would be able to take it and interpret, because we're not in interpretation. In fact, we're providing a lot of information to our colleagues so they can do film and stuff like that.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Do you put a call out to the public to get new information, new photographs, new materials?

[Daniel J. Caron]

We will with the statement of documentary intent. We'll say, okay, we have a void here in—I don't know—1940 to 1945 on this topic, so we're interested in getting material.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

This last statement here I found very intriguing: for 2017, “permit the construction of a truly modern documentary heritage institution”. That sounds like a very significant project, and I wonder if you could just tell us what it would look like and how it would work.

[Daniel J. Caron]

We are reviewing all the business processes. We were just talking about one major element, which is the acquisition. How do we acquire material? We were reactive; we're going proactive. One of the reasons for that is if we want to be representative of all the documentary heritage produced in the digital environment in Canada, it's a totally different challenge. If we're not there up front it will disappear.

We need to find new ways of identifying what we need to gather very early in the process because it's going into the clouds and the clouds are moving. It's a tough task. That's one element that we're working very seriously on to be able to identify. The second part is to be able to take it in. A modern institution will be an institution where we can preserve digital material. A trusted digital repository is currently at the heart of our work.

Finally, the access. To have something that is not available to Canadians is not very effective. We want to shorten the time between the moment it gets in and the moment it gets out, at least as a first-level description. We're probably going to reduce the effort we're making in describing material, but make sure people know what we have so they can use it, because we do it for them.

We had a tradition—and I'll give you a short example, if I may. I went to Newfoundland in November 2009 and I brought them a gift. It was a surrogate of a very important piece to them. It was half a page. On my way there I read my briefing note and I had the description. The description for that half page was six pages. So guess what? We have a backlog. This is all changing. A modern institution will make sure everything is described, first of all. Then we can come back for some part of the collections that are of more interest to Canadians. We see that by the number of demands.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

If someone wanted to write a play, a movie, or a TV script about Sir John Graves Simcoe, could they just get it off the Internet when this modern documentary heritage institution is up and running, or would they have to download it?

[Daniel J. Caron]

They could get it off the Internet, or at least they would know we have material. They would call us and we would tell them what we have.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

It sounds very interesting.

[Daniel J. Caron]

It's a more direct interface with Canadian citizens.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

It sounds great.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Young.

Mr. Nantel.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

My question has to do with the dialogue we are trying to establish for 2017.

At the beginning of November, I noticed that faculty associations were concerned about the 12 pillars of your decentralization. Is that being addressed? Is dialogue open?

[Daniel J. Caron]

First, we are not decentralizing; we are federating. I think it is very important to make that distinction. I have been working since the beginning with the Canadian Historical Association, the Canadian Association of Research Libraries, the Association of Canadian Archivists, the Canadian Library Association and the Association des archivistes du Québec. They are all at my table. Things will turn around slowly. But my job is not to defend a profession or anything like that, but to protect the documentary heritage of Canadians. So I am going to do everything I can so that physical or virtual vaults will be filled with what Canadians produce. That is my mandate and that is what I am going to do.

From a slightly more professional perspective, I created a university forum two years ago. I invite all Canadian educational institutions, be they EBSI or McGill University in Montreal, the University of Western Ontario, the University of Toronto or UBC, to take a seat at my table and talk about the training of future professionals. That's part of the problem. Our professionals have been lucky to a certain extent. In the world of writing, things have been quite static. But we are now in a completely different world. We have to rethink professions. It is a very important job. It is no longer behind a counter. It is somewhere on the Internet. It is about telling people that the document they have before them is authentic, that the digital book they have access to really does have 167 pages and a half. It is a different role. This is all happening at the moment and it raises concerns, of course. But we have to adjust. Otherwise, we will all just fade away. We will no longer be useful.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Boutin-Sweet.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

My question is for the representatives from the National Film Board.

I went to see you and I realized that you have worked with Alanis Obomsawin a lot.

Are you planning specific first nations projects for the 150^th anniversary?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

The Inuit project I gave as an example will continue over the next few years. We are very involved with the first nations.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

What about other first nations?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Inuit are separate.

We are constantly involved in productions with the first nations.

[James Roberts]

There might be 110 films in our collection that have to do with Inuit, but there are hundreds and hundreds of films made by aboriginals about aboriginals across Canada.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

I am thinking along the lines of new productions.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

A number of productions are in progress, with aboriginal producers or on aboriginal topics. Alanis is still making films. We are doing a project with aboriginal communities in the Quebec area, where they have production workshops. We have them across the country. We are very active.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

You must be familiar with the Wapikoni project, correct?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Yes.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

You were involved in that.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Yes, we were involved.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Is there a chance that you might get involved again, now that there have been significant cuts and that those people are really in danger and really need help? Would it be possible to lend them a hand to survive?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

No, it is impossible.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Not at all, there is nothing that...

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

No. We have been involved for a long time. The NFB's job was to develop initiatives. We were there at the start of the Wapikoni project. We were very involved. At some point, after five years, those people were supposed to fly on their own. That was the plan from the beginning. Other aboriginal nations were supposed to take up the project. We would rather carry out other projects. We have other projects that achieve the same goal as the Wapikoni project, but they are less visible.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, do I have time for a quick question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

You have 30 seconds.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Caron, I have a very specific question for you.

Recently, a book illustrated by Catharine Parr Traill—I'm not sure if she wrote it as well—was sold to an American collector. Do you know how a book like that got into the hands of a private American collector?

[Daniel J. Caron]

There are a bunch of cases like that, madam. I am not familiar with that one in particular.

We keep a strategic watch. When we do our assessment, we ask ourselves whether we should participate in the bidding or not. We sometimes go. You win some, you lose some.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

You are not familiar with that case.

[Daniel J. Caron]

I'm sorry, I am not.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Merci.

Thank you to our witnesses today. Thank you for taking the time to answer a lot of questions. We're at the early stages of our Canada 150 study, but we know it's going to take a lot of preparation for us to have a great celebration. We're pleased that you're going to be a part of it.

By the way, for the National Film Board, I was able to be in Shanghai and see that movie you did. It was great, and the Canada pavilion was one of the most popular at the Expo, so congratulations on that.

I have a reminder for our committee members that we do not have a committee meeting this Thursday. Our next meeting is next Tuesday, when we're going to be studying committee business.

The committee is adjourned.