Canadian Heritage Committee on March 4th, 2013

[Tim Comerford]

I agree. I think finance is a huge, huge part of retention for coaching.

In my case, in our club, as somebody brought up before, our practices for the 10-and-under coaches are in the afternoon. Theoretically, somebody could work a nine-to-five and be a coach for life. It's doable for the very young age, where we only have three or four practices a week.

I think in terms of being a career coach, there has be...maybe like you were saying before, that if coaching becomes part of a university program, having a career coach who's also a university teacher supplements the time during that day. We have the CEGEP program. If you can take a minor in coaching, with a focus in swimming, and then you have a head coach for swimming who's also a professor at McGill, that would be a huge appeal to a coach, I think, to be a career coach.

It fills in the question mark behind “How am I going to make sure that I make money, that I have a salary?”

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Okay. Good.

Just switching over to the spectator side of swimming, swimming draws a lot of people, we know, in highly competitive environments like the Olympics. People were selling tickets for a crazy amount of money because that's what they could get for scalping those tickets.

What happens with young people when they get to that 15- or 16-year age? If they're in hockey, they have a career path if they're good. If they're in boxing or wrestling, there's a career path.

What happens with swimmers after they get to the Olympics and that's over with and they're off to college? If they're fortunate enough and good enough to get a college scholarship, what happens when they finish college? Where do they go?

[Matt Showers]

We hope they become coaches.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Matt Showers]

No, there aren't that many places to go. For most kids, if they're lucky enough to get a scholarship and go away to school on scholarship and get an education, oftentimes they'll put the education to use, we hope, after swimming is done. Swimming, unfortunately, is just not a career option anywhere in the world. Nobody's going to pay you to swim.

I used to play water polo at the national level. Even as carded athletes in Canada I think we were getting $800 a month, give or take. I had to work a part-time job and train three times a day just to be able to play. It's unrealistic to think that anybody's going to want to do that for any long period of time.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Why do you think there's no competitive swimming the way there is competitive football or soccer or anything else? I mean, it's an easy sport to watch, and it's an exciting sport to watch, and it has all the elements of other sports. Why can't it generate revenue and run as a professional activity?

[Matt Showers]

I just think the fan base isn't there.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

How do you develop that?

[Matt Showers]

That's a great question. In Canada, to dream that we're ever going to be like the likes of hockey is so unreasonable. Right now that's where all the kids want to be, and what they want to watch.

Most swimmers are actually just athletes. We try our best to just develop an athlete, not necessarily a swimmer, because we know that will carry them a lot later on in life. You'll see that usually pure swimmers are very uncoordinated, very awkward people. They can't throw a ball. They can't kick a ball. They can't catch a ball. We want to develop just athletes.

But in terms of developing a fan base, I mean, we get an influx of kids into a swimming program after the Olympics, that's for sure. Is that a fan base for swimming or is that a fan base for the Olympics? It's for the Olympics. Will they watch just a swimming-specific televised event? I don't think so. Will they watch the Olympics? Sure.

So I don't know. I really don't.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

What do you think, Tim?

[Tim Comerford]

It's a tricky situation, especially because, as Matt said, the Olympics are a huge draw. People get to know a couple of names, so they'll pick a country. If the Canadians have a relay going in, the relays are really exciting.

Swim meets usually end off with a 50-metre freestyle, a really exciting race, but the reality is that the main races in the sport of swimming are a 200-metre individual medley or a 400-metre IM. You're looking at 1,500-metre freestyle, which really isn't that exciting to watch.

Not to be pessimistic about the sport itself, but to answer your question of where we start, it's in elementary schools. It's implementing swimming and all sports into a physical education curriculum.

If we want to mimic what they have in the United States, at a university swim competition the building is crowded and overflowing with people cheering on the team. We see that a little bit starting in CEGEP. If we can bring that to high school and bring a culture into our high schools, that would help. If every high school or one in the area had a pool, that would be a huge step in the right direction towards developing kids who want to watch swimming.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Thanks, gentlemen.

Thanks, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Now we'll go to Mr. Dubé.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you very much.

I would like to discuss something that you have both touched on. On the one hand, we have heard that a number of coaches work part time and study at the same time. On the other hand, they are often lifeguards. That brings me to the following question.

People are more interested in becoming lifeguards, as you mentioned. Is that because it is easier to be a lifeguard in the summer and go to school for the rest of the year? Is there a specific reason for that?

[Matt Showers]

Where we're from, being a lifeguard in the summer is really fun. Kids who swim in an indoor or outdoor pool all want to become lifeguards, but it remains a summer job. It's the same for the trainers who teach kids aged 8 or 9. The job gives them a bit of pocket money while they are at school. Aside from them, few people are interested.

It's a difficult situation. We could probably hire other trainers who do not have all the swimming knowledge, but who could stay longer than them. But we would prefer trainers who have a very good knowledge of swimming. It is preferable to see them train and demonstrate their skills to the children than to hire people who know nothing about swimming.

So there is major turnover. Every two or three years, we lose our trainers and have to replace them with younger people going to school. Having said that, we prefer having them than other people who do not have the same knowledge.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

That's right.

I think I am sort of seeing the difference between the two. So, a little more personal commitment is required to become a trainer. That probably doesn't explain the lack of interest, but the fact that more people want to become lifeguards. It's easier to do that kind of quick turnover.

My other question is about the observation that I think Mr. Comerford just made on pools in the schools.

Last week, Pierre Lafontaine, the former director of Swimming Canada, rightly said that the Olympic Games might get people interested in swimming, but it was difficult for young people to swim when there are about 15 swimmers in each swim lane.

Do we really not have enough pools? Wanting a pool in every school is still asking a lot.

[Tim Comerford]

In our neighbourhood, about 30 pools are open in the summer in about 12 towns, which is quite a lot. But in the winter, three large pools are used for competitions. They are in Beaconsfield, Dollard-des-Ormeaux and Pointe-Claire.

I think there is a great need for pools. The only problem is that our three pools are competing. At the pool in our neighbourhood, we are trying to develop swimmers; it's our culture. We want to train athletes for life. However, at the other pools, it may be that you want an athlete to be the fastest that year. Given these different cultures, the family of a given swimmer may choose a pool where it costs less or where the culture meets their needs.

We need more pools if we want to develop swimmers. In our area, we have about 15 swimmers per lane; it's very difficult.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you.

My last question is for both of you. We're talking about basic talent. Often, what is interesting in swimming is seeing that a lot of people register to learn basic skills, to learn to swim, but not necessarily compete.

In fact, I remember that the pool was full during swim class, but in the evening, there were maybe five people there for training. I'm exaggerating a little, but I'm using it to illustrate what I want to say.

Does that present challenges for the trainers? In your sport, more people register to gain life skills. However, a lot of people register for hockey, for example, to be very competitive and get to a higher level. Does that mean that swimming has unique challenges?

[Matt Showers]

I think so. There are two different ways of teaching swimming, either through the Red Cross program, or by trying to get to the Olympic Games. I would like it to be tied more to swim clubs. Right now, these two teaching methods are really separate. Towns hire lifeguards to teach swimming. If your child wants to learn to swim competitively, he or she must join a swim club. I would really like it to be the same club. I have nothing against lifeguards and how they teach swimming, but they are only showing children what to do if they get into trouble in the water.

Children are in the water for half an hour or an hour, three or four times a week. Why not do more? There could be more children. If training were given at the same time as a lesson, I see what they are doing. What do we make the children do? They do the same thing for 30 minutes, going back and forth. I would like a group to look at that, everyone together. The swim club does everything: lessons and competitive swimming. I think there might be more children swimming competitively if that were the case.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Dubé.

Next we have Mr. Richards for five minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to share my time with Mr. Leung. I'll let him lead off with his questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Mr. Leung.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

My question has to do with prioritizing how we handle swimming as a sport. We heard from previous witnesses that financial resources, pool time, and coaches are all at a premium. I just want to hear from you about how you prioritize where we should focus our resources to produce the best results.

I understand that swimming itself is a wonderful life skill. The discipline of an athlete is very important. I myself was a long-distance swimmer. However, given the scarce resources, perhaps you can share with us your thoughts on how we should focus on where we get the best results.

Thank you.

[Matt Showers]

To produce the best results, I think the funds should be focused on the coaches. Everywhere in Canada, I think, not only in Quebec, parents will pull their kids and jump from club to club on a yearly basis. We experience it a lot where we live, but I think it happens everywhere. Parents will take their kids to whichever club seems to be producing the best results. That club may not necessarily have the best coaches or the best coaching staff. They may just have had the luck of the draw and pulled some talented kids.

I'd like to see what we have in hockey, where kids play hockey based on where they live: if you live in this district, you play hockey here.

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