Evidence of meeting #55 for Canadian Heritage in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was coaches.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Bales  Chief Executive Officer, Coaching Association of Canada
Marc Gélinas  Chief Executive Officer, Institut national du sport du Québec
Wayne Hussey  Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club
Matt Showers  Head Coach for ten years and under, Lac St-Louis Swimming Association, Beaconsfield Bluefins Swim Club
Tim Comerford  Competitive Swim Coach, Lac St-Louis Region Swimming Association, Beaconsfield Bluefins Swim Club

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Moore

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage as we continue our study on the status of amateur coaching in Canada.

We are very pleased to have witnesses with us today from the Institut national du sport du Québec, Marc Gélinas, chief executive officer. From the Coaching Association of Canada, we have John Bales, chief executive officer. From the Oakville Gymnastics Club, we have Wayne Hussey, chief executive officer.

Welcome to you, gentlemen. These witnesses will be with us until 4:25. At 4:25 we're going to be hearing from another panel of witnesses.

As the clerk has explained to you, there will be time for opening remarks and then we'll have an opportunity for our committee members to ask some questions of the witnesses.

We will begin with Mr. Bales from the Coaching Association of Canada. He has a PowerPoint presentation.

Mr. Bales, the floor is yours.

3:35 p.m.

John Bales Chief Executive Officer, Coaching Association of Canada

Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate this opportunity to address you today.

I'll go through these PowerPoint slides, the first ones, fairly quickly to get to some of the recommendations towards the end. What I've tried to address here are the main areas that you had referred to in the brief around training and certification, participation, and how the federal government might further promote coaching in Canada.

A little bit of background on the Coaching Association of Canada. The organization was established in 1970. It's a not-for-profit national organization that has received the mandate from both levels of government. The federal-provincial-territorial ministers responsible for sport have given the mandate to CAC for the development of coaching across all sports and at all levels.

It is very much a partnership organization, relying on all of the different national sport organizations and provincial-territorial coaching groups that are involved in coaching.

In terms of the importance of coaching development, there was an analysis done by the Conference Board of Canada in October of 2011 in preparation for the new Canadian sport policy. These were three of the areas that were addressed in this very wide-ranging study. It looked at the number one priority for Canada's sport development system and concluded that it was coaches and instructors; the number one priority for the high-performance delivery system was coaches and technical leadership; and the number one program change related to long-term athlete development was the training of coaches and volunteers.

Again, I reinforce the fact that you're doing this study and addressing coaching, and it's very much supported by that analysis done by the Conference Board of Canada, leading up to the new Canadian sport policy that came out just over a year ago.

In terms of the training and certification of coaches, that is the primary role and function of the Coaching Association of Canada and its partners. The slogan we use is “Every athlete deserves a certified coach”. We train coaches right from the volunteer community level to the Olympic and Paralympic level.

I have a little video clip that's not going to work. It doesn't matter. It was just to demonstrate some of the work being done at the base level with regard to teaching young children fundamental movement skills—balance, coordination, running, jumping, throwing—as the starting point, and a really essential part of the sport delivery pathway, right from that level up to the National Coaching Institute, which has an advanced diploma for high-level coaches that are preparing to be Olympic and Paralympic coaches.

In addition, we have specific programs for women in coaching, who are very underrepresented in coaching in Canada. At the national team level, approximately 15% of the coaches are women, and even through the delivery system women tend to be quite underrepresented. In addition, the aboriginal coaching program and programs for coaching athletes with a disability are part of the program we offer.

I just want to bring your attention to a study that was done by the University of Toronto evaluating one of the modules called “Make ethical decisions”, within the national coaching certification program. This was done by two professors at the University of Toronto in 2011 and is a very important part of the program we offer: the whole ethical framework for coaching as an important foundation. It found that 73% reported that they had changed their thinking about ethical decision-making as a result of their course participation. Over 50% were looking for further education on things like fair play, athlete maltreatment, health and safety, equity, doping, honouring sport, and social ethics.

Again, this is a real foundation part of the program, and the feedback on it has been very positive.

When we get to the area of regulation of coaches, which was another point that was referred to in the brief, I think it's important to state the opinion, backed up by some publications, that coaching is quite different from other professions—law, or medicine, or accounting—in that it is termed here as a blended professional area. It is very much a mix of volunteer coaching and professional or paid coaching, whereas those other real professions don't allow anyone outside of their professional sphere. In the case of coaching, it is very much a blend between volunteer coaching and professional coaching, and it's important that we respect and value both aspects. We need more paid professional coaches to lead sport development, but the system is also very dependent on the volunteer coaches who really enable such a breadth of sport opportunities across the country.

However, both have to address the whole risk management and adherence to the code of ethics that really applies to any coach, whether volunteer or paid. That is a critical component of the work we are doing, and it's an area that we see needs further attention. The codes of ethics exist, but we need to address, in a more fulsome way, the adherence and the disciplinary process to ensure that if there are people who are breaking the code, they can be removed from the system.

In terms of participation from a coaching aspect, over 90,000 participants take part in NCCP courses each year, making it one of the biggest adult education programs in the country. Over a million coaches have taken a course since the program began in the 1970s.

Referring back to the Conference Board of Canada report:

“It is the coaches that define a quality experience. ... Having quality coaches, leads to quality sport.”

Again, I think there's a very strong consensus on the importance of the role that coaches play.

In terms of looking forward to areas the federal government might further promote, to highlight some of the barriers and challenges we're facing, we are in the process of conducting a number of different focus groups to get input from the field, from coaches and the people teaching the coaching courses. Some of the issues that are quite prevalent are the cost and time to get certified. In many cases here, we're dealing with volunteer coaches who are already volunteering their time. On top of that, to be expected to take an education program is another ask of them, as well as the cost to be involved in that. Those are big issues within coaching across the country and across different sports.

Accessibility to and awareness of NCCP training.... Again, in many of the bigger cities the program is quite accessible, but as you go into rural areas...and when you go across 67 sports, some of the sports are quite small, so they don't offer the program that frequently. So accessibility is a big issue. Part of that is the capacity of the sport organizations to actually offer the program, both in terms of human resources and financial resources.

I'd also like to bring attention to two studies, the “Report on the Status of Coaches in Canada”, which was done in 2009, and the “Improving High-Performance Coaching” study done by Own the Podium and the Coaching Association. They have really highlighted the need for more full-time coaching positions to support Canadian athletes.

I've identified four areas here that I would like your committee to consider. One area is around e-learning, to try to help address that cost and accessibility to training to support the sport organizations. To deliver elements of the NCCP online would open up some of the accessibility and reduce some of the costs. I believe there are some federal government programs that really deal with technology, so that could be an area that would have a very big impact on the training of coaches across different sports.

Another idea that comes up quite frequently is the potential to have tax deductibility of the course registration fees for coaches who take an NCCP course. There is the children's fitness tax credit, but the volunteer coaches who are taking NCCP are having to pay for that, and the incentive of a tax credit is something that comes up quite frequently.

Another area is linkage with universities, especially when we get to the high-performance and the paid coaching end, to look at coaching degree programs and research in coaching. Again, the federal government puts a lot of money into research through the different council grants, but very little of that money goes into sport. That's a comment we get repeatedly from the university professors who play a major role in the design, development, and delivery of the coaching program, but they're being pulled off to other areas where there are grants in health and other areas. So there really is a need for additional research in sport and in coaching. That's really the lifeblood of universities, and we really value that contribution that university departments of physical education and kinesiology make to our programs.

Finally, with regard to federal-provincial cost-sharing programs for coach salaries, although there has been a lot of progress made in the recent past in terms of more coaching positions available at the national level, when you go below that national team level, there is still a big gap in really defining a career as a coach. That's an area where we've had a lot of discussions with provinces, and there seems to be quite an open attitude to things like cost-sharing programs.

Let me stop there; it must have been about 10 minutes. Those are some of the key ideas I'd like to put forward. Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Moore

Thank you, Mr. Bales.

Next we'll go to Mr. Gélinas, from the Institut national du sport du Québec. The floor is yours, sir.

3:45 p.m.

Marc Gélinas Chief Executive Officer, Institut national du sport du Québec

Good afternoon.

The Institut national du sport du Québec administers a number of programs and services for athletes preparing for high-level competitions, such as the Olympic or Paralympic Games. We offer a wide range of programs and services, specifically training and professional development for those who want to become high-level coaches or for those who are already national team coaches and need professional development.

I was very interested in Mr. Bales' presentation. A number of his recommendations partly overlap with our observations. We do not train coaches in sports initiation, but we train those preparing for high-performance sport and who are already working in the field. In my view, a number of training elements also apply to high-level coaches.

I will leave it at that. I can participate in the ensuing discussion.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Moore

Thank you.

Next we will go to Mr. Hussey, from the Oakville Gymnastics Club.

Mr. Hussey.

3:45 p.m.

Wayne Hussey Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club

Thank you.

I don't have a presentation and I don't have notes, but I have 46 years of experience as a coach. I know, how can a guy who looks so young have that much experience? I think I started coaching in the womb.

I just want to share some of my thoughts with you. I have lots of answers to some of the problems, but we don't have time for them here, so if you want to invite me back, I'd be happy to come back. I'd like to address some of the concerns I've had over the 46 years. I'll just walk you through a little bit.

I started as a very young coach in a different sport from the one I'm in now, in basketball. I coached at every level. I was a volunteer coach as a university student. I became a college coach, a local coach, a university coach, a junior national coach, and finally, a national coach, which I did for nine years. So I've seen pretty much the full gamut of coaching, and I still feel I'm coaching now because....

There are 65 people working in our organization. We're probably the largest gymnastics organization in North America—or one of the largest. There might be a couple we don't know of yet. We have 1,600 young kids, aged 18 months to 18 years, and we have a lot of new, up and coming young coaches.

We struggle with getting good coaches, and getting coaches in general, because the reality is that coaching is not really a great job. The hours are bad, the pay is bad, and the longevity of a life in coaching is bad. And depending on what types of groups they're coaching, it becomes even more problematic. In our situation, for example—I know it's not like this in every sport—when parents get involved...obviously, parents know better than coaches because they're a trained parent and not a trained coach, and they're now paying the way. The challenges in every sport are different—I get that—so I can only share with you some of mine.

When I was a professional coach, people stopped me on the street, friends of mine, and they'd ask me what I did. I'd say, “I'm a coach”, and they'd say, “No, what do you do?” Sport in Canada is seen as an activity, not something that we necessarily pay as much attention to as perhaps we should.

I learned a long time ago, too, that sometimes the people who are really involved are the ones very close to the sport, close to their kids, or close to someone coaching that sport. As we have Olympics and Paralympics and things of that nature, we have a tendency, as everybody has heard, to wave the flag and try to do a little bit more, and try to do a little bit more with coaching.

But it starts so much further back than that. If you come to our club, every day you'll see little 18-month-old kids just getting comfortable in a gym, and there has to be someone in there with them. As John said, certification is very important; however, if you have young coaches working with these young kids...to be certified to coach gymnastics it takes three or four weekends and it costs them a couple of hundred dollars. We pay half and they pay half, and then they earn it back. As I said, they have to deal with a lot of problems, and it's just a tough thing for them.

I was glad to hear John mention the online part. I just mentioned it to him today, so I don't know how he got it on his screen so quickly.

3:45 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Coaching Association of Canada

John Bales

It was pretty quick, right?

3:45 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club

Wayne Hussey

Yes, that's very good. That's a good reaction time, so I'm happy for that.

The only thing he didn't put in there...I'd like to see it be free. That's one of the things we can do. We spend a lot of money on things like this, where you bring people in, but perhaps we could have introductory coaching courses online so that people can go online and take those courses at no cost to them and at their own convenience. Those are the ones who will probably become involved with their sons and daughters in different sports. If they want to go further, as I did, and become a professional coach, there are the higher levels of coaching certification, it's more time-consuming, and you need to know more.

But at that grassroots level, if we think back—some of you who are of my vintage anyway—it was our moms and our dads who coached, and I sure the heck know they didn't have any coaching certification. They just had a love for the sport, a love for their kids, time, interest, and a sincere desire to be there and get it done.

A lot of time in sport now we hear—and I know that from hockey studies, football studies, baseball studies, and basketball studies—that we play too many games and we don't practise enough. Well, that's a result of not necessarily having great coaches, because a lot of times for those coaches it's the luck of the draw: who is in your area?

I would say that now we try to recruit coaches on a quarterly, once-a-year basis, and we struggle to get coaches from Canada. We now have to go overseas. We're getting them from Romania, Russia, England, and Ireland. It's a very difficult profession, so we have to find ways to make it more attractive, especially if we want to take it seriously and especially if we want kids who are really working hard to embrace activities...because we tell them to; we tell them to get away from the computer and be more active. But we don't have people there ready for them.

We built a dedicated facility in Oakville seven years ago. Like a lot of sports, we were located in a commercial building. We went from 800 to 1,600 kids a session—you can multiply that by three—and 1,000 people at summer camps.

Facilities play a big part in it, too. If you build a great facility and you get coaches running good programs, the kids will come.

We have 240 competitive kids. We went from some 30 coaches to employing about 65 or 70 now. We have about 500 kids on the waiting list.

We built the new building with the help of federal and provincial government money in a project in Oakville. It cost us personally $1.7 million—the whole facility was $3 million—and we paid it off in 10 years instead of 20 years.

Based on our agreement, we're going to have rent-free access for 30 years, but because we're so full and we think we have the right formula, we're now asking the town to build another facility with us. We don't like to see those kids on a waiting list; we want to get them active.

I think there are a lot of things that can happen in sport in Canada. I hope your committee can identify a lot of them and make some inroads with them. I think some are a lot easier than others, and I know some are very daunting challenges.

Again, I've been doing this for 46 years. We used to have quadrennial planning when I was a national coach, and we'd bring people in from all across the country. We'd have all these great plans, only to learn that we didn't have enough money to follow through with the plans. Then we'd have to plan again, based on the money we had.

All I'm suggesting is this. I know resources are limited. I'm not a big person asking for money; I'm a big person asking for support. I like to generate money through corporations, and I like to generate money by running sport like a business. I think it can be done that way, but I think there are probably some things the government can do provincially and federally to help most sports. You just have to be creative, think outside the box, and challenge sports people to come up with the ideas.

Thank you.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Moore

Thank you, Mr. Hussey.

Now we will move to our question and answer time. This is a seven-minute round, and we'll start with Mr. Young.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here today. We appreciate it.

Mr. Hussey, we almost missed you totally, but you managed to get here today. I guess it was snow that held you up last week.

3:55 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club

Wayne Hussey

The flight was cancelled, yes.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

Congratulations on your successes at the Oakville Gymnastics Club, and on your growth. I'm overdue for a visit to come and see how things are going.

I wanted to ask you this. From the big picture, with all your years of experience, could you share with the committee why sport is important for young people?

3:55 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club

Wayne Hussey

For me, it's a cornerstone for a lot of things. For example, I'm not a big gymnastics person. I was a basketball person, and I could never get gymnastics when I started in that sport. Then I realized that these little kids who were eight, nine, ten years old were flipping and doing things on beams that we would be very nervous to do. I like my feet firmly on the ground; they don't. So all of a sudden I realized why it was so important to them to stay in it.

The thing we found, too, is that the concentration level in sport is so high that it transfers to other things. It transfers to school. We've had results from schools that have shown us that students—whether they were good, bad, or indifferent—became better once they took up the sport and stayed in the sport longer, because of the concentration level.

I've found that even in my post-university career. I wasn't sure a lot of the guys would make it in business—they were sports guys and they had a dubious university career, I would say, or study habits—but because they played sports and they formed a few variables that weren't taught at university, they became pretty good business guys. They knew how to work with people, they knew how to work through things, they had common goals.

I come from a team sport. I always believe you're as smart as the people you hang around with. You're as good as the people around you who are working with you, so I like to build teams. I know nothing about gymnastics, yet we have one of the strongest gymnastics clubs in North America. But I know business and I know coaching, so I go out and hire good gymnastics people, and because I can run a business, I can afford to pay them. So there are ways around it.

Sports is a cornerstone. There are four key sports, gymnastics being one, and track and field being another. There's a sport like swimming. It's a lifetime skill.

You can always take something from sport and bring it into your everyday life, and I think that's why Canada and other countries are so enamoured with sport. It's not necessarily because of the unbelievable skills that people possess. I think it's the other things we know about that sport can do for people.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

We're not even going to start talking about video games and kids sitting home playing video games by the hour.

Wayne, what's your biggest challenge at the Oakville Gymnastics Club?

3:55 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club

Wayne Hussey

Our biggest challenge is space and a facility. I know you're not involved with facilities at this point in time, but facilities are a big one. But coaches.... As I said, we just don't have enough coaches.

One of my board members said that we have enough money now to put in a new facility, and my comment was that we don't have enough coaches yet. That's why I wanted to come and speak here today. We have to make coaching opportunities more accessible. We're losing out on a lot of things because of that.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

You have a budget to pay coaches, but you can't find them.

4 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club

Wayne Hussey

That's part of it.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

How many have you brought from other countries?

4 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club

Wayne Hussey

We have about five or six, and there are two en route.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

Is that a very lengthy process, or are they able to immigrate to Canada fairly easily?

4 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club

Wayne Hussey

No, it's fairly lengthy, depending on the country they're coming from.

The problem, too, is that it's hard to necessarily check out all their qualifications. We do, because we have insights from other coaches in that area. But it becomes difficult.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

Can you tell us about the successes of Christine Peng-Peng Lee, Oakville Olympian, and any other potential Olympians you have? That makes it pretty exciting.

4 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club

Wayne Hussey

Yes. Gymnastics is a tough Olympic sport. John and I were just talking about gymnastics earlier. It's a tough sport, because only so many athletes, male and female, go to represent Canada.

We don't look at it in terms of Olympic athletes; we try to develop a strong base. In most sports, that's what you try to do. If you have a really good base, as it moves up you'll have your successes—Christine Peng-Peng Lee and gals like her. We had three out of the top 10 girls in the national program and we had a couple of boys. So it's just developing a strong base in a program. And again, it was because of two very good coaches we brought in.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

Coaches are key. They're critical.

4 p.m.

Chief Operating Officer, Oakville Gymnastics Club