Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Mr. Noormohamed, did you take your hand down?

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Madam Chair, I did put my hand up, because—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No. You're not ready to speak, but I'm wondering, because your hand was down.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I did put my hand down on this particular motion, because I assume we'll vote on it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay. Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Waugh.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I agree with this motion for a number of reasons. I wake up very early in the morning and I read all newspapers in this country. I can tell you that what is happening before our eyes is a disaster.

In London, the Home County Music and Art Festival has been cancelled. Taste of Saskatchewan is cancelled. Hot Docs and Toronto Fringe Festival have major cutbacks. Just for Laughs is eliminated in Montreal and Toronto. Taste of the Danforth is cancelled this year. Toronto arts and food festivals are all cancelled this year. I can go on and on.

I'm very disturbed at what's going on in the culture. This is worse, believe it or not, than we saw during COVID. Many of these organizations were looking forward to relief after COVID, but this is worse now. They're hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

Nobody has the capability now of going to these events. Attendance has been well down in 2023 right across the board, from the Atlantic provinces, Madam Chair, to your province in B.C. They're not drawing the interest they once did, and I believe it is because of the carbon tax. People in this country don't have the disposable income to really give the arts and culture in this country the financial boost that they need.

In the last three months alone, in 2024, many of these organizations have had to make major announcements in January, February, and March. They're usually booking people at this time to perform in June, July, and August, and they've decided to just close up shop.

I've mentioned a few here, but there are many more, coast to coast, that just can't afford it anymore. They're very disappointed, because, as you know, people in the arts community don't make a lot of money. They go from city to city just to eke out a living and make a name for themselves. Because of the carbon tax, the year 2024 will be disastrous in the arts community in our country. They just don't have the disposable income that they once had.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Waugh.

I will now go to Mr. Lawrence, and then Ms. Ashton and Mr. Champoux.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

My colleagues commented quite eloquently and profoundly with respect to the arts. My background's more on the finance side. I'd like to take a moment, if I could, and talk specifically about the economic impact of the carbon tax.

Across the different provinces, whether in Ontario, where net of rebate you lose about $600, or in Alberta, where you lose about $1,000, just imagine if you put that net amount towards some type of live theatre. That $600 would get you, I believe, a season pass for every production at the Capitol Theatre in my riding of Port Hope. I'm sure they would greatly appreciate it if all 100,000 residents of Northumberland-Peterborough South were given that $600 back and spent it at the amazing live theatre at the Capitol Theatre in Port Hope.

When we look at it, of course we see the financial impact that the PBO put out, saying that if you're in Alberta it's $1,000 and if you're in Ontario—my province—it's $600 across the province, the impact is there for all where the backstop applies.

The other part of it is that it has a significant impact on inflation as well. This has been somewhat under-reported, or even misreported, I might say. The Governor of the Bank of Canada, in response to questioning at the finance committee, said that 0.6% of inflation is directly as a result of the carbon tax, and the upcoming increase is responsible for 0.015%, which equates to about 26% or 27% of total inflation. This means we could eliminate nearly 30% of inflation tomorrow if we just scrap the tax, which would be a tremendous benefit.

We're all hearing it, whether you're Liberal, NDP or Bloc Québécois. I'll tell you that in the next two weeks, I guarantee the thing that all of us will hear most about is the affordability crisis. As my great staffer, Emma, said as we were discussing this, if in fact you are struggling just to have enough to eat—and there are two million Canadians using food banks right now—it's very difficult to afford arts and entertainment.

That was a short digression. I'll wrap up soon.

You need food to live—it's the “how” of living—but you need arts and entertainment to give you the “why”. When people are deprived of that because of the affordability crisis, even for those who are able to make it through, a lot of the “why” is taken away when you don't get to see the beauty of art, live theatre and amazing performances that take place from coast to coast to coast.

Everything we can do to get this economy back on track—not just so that people are no longer reliant on the food bank but are able to afford the wonderful performances and afford the “why” we go through every day—would be absolutely amazing. I will be fully supporting this motion and I encourage all my colleagues to do the same. I'm hoping we can get unanimous support for it.

Thank you.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Madam Chair, we now have 30 minutes left in the meeting. We have folks who were there to do the sensitivity training. If we're not going to be able to do that training, maybe we can at least let them leave so that we can continue whatever is happening here. It seems unfair to them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, it would seem to me that we're going to be continuing this debate, so I think we can ask them to come another time. However, we do need to listen to them. This is so important. Thank you.

All right. Go ahead, Niki.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

First off, this is the second committee that I'm on where we're dealing with this motion. While I appreciate that affordability is a crisis in our country and it's clear that people are struggling here at home and across the country, I think we're also seeing some serious theatrics from the Conservatives in trying to jam these motions into every single committee.

Also, as somebody who's been a member of Parliament for a while and was here during the dark days of Stephen Harper when it came to the arts community, it's pretty rich to hear Conservatives go to the wall for the arts. When they were in power, we saw some of the deepest cuts to arts and culture.

Also, on comments that the arts are suffering more than during COVID, I know Conservatives like to downplay the pandemic—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Niki, excuse me.

Are you not getting translation?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, at times, Ms. Ashton's microphone seems to be moving or obstructed. The sound quality is certainly not adequate for interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Your microphone's cutting in and out, Niki. Please try to speak into the microphone and speak a bit more slowly.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Yes, and maybe I can speak more slowly. All the equipment I'm using is House equipment.

All of that is to say that we in the NDP have been clear that affordability is a crisis. We would love for the Conservatives to join us in calling for fair taxation, especially of the rich and powerful in our country, who are getting off the hook without paying their fair share of taxes. It's money that could be reinvested in our social safety net and reinvested in ways that could support Canadians who are struggling right now.

This motion does not do that. Certainly, we won't be supporting it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Martin.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I find it interesting to hear my Conservative colleagues defend the cultural industry and creators. It's refreshing. The Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage deals with communication, culture and many such issues. Culture is about entertainment, and I must say that my Conservative colleagues are entertaining and creative in their way of always bringing up the carbon tax.

That said, Mrs. Thomas spoke earlier in her speech about people in the cultural community with whom she discussed the situation that prevails from one end of Canada to the other and that is also extremely worrisome in Quebec. The financial situation is difficult, and the next few months don't seem to be encouraging for the cultural sector either.

We hope that the programs will be maintained, but they will probably not be improved, which is a concern for many. We have seen closures. We have seen festival organizers in financial difficulty. The Just for Laughs festival, among others, won't be held this summer. It's extremely worrisome to see cultural giants in Quebec and Canada stop their activities like that.

That said, I think the situation in Quebec, and particularly in Montreal, where my colleague Mrs. Thomas says she has had conversations, is the same as in the other major cities in Canada.

However, the carbon tax doesn't apply in Quebec, so I would be curious to know what the difference is between the financial situation of the cultural industries in the other major cities in Canada and that of Montreal, so that we can see what the real impact of the carbon tax is on the cultural industry. Since it does not apply to Quebec, we can't say that it has an impact on culture in Quebec. If we can take that as a benchmark, it will allow us to see whether there is really an impact of the carbon tax in the rest of Canada, since—I would remind you—the carbon tax doesn't apply in Quebec.

That's all I have to say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Martin.

Now I'll go to Mrs. Thomas again.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that.

I can appreciate a number of the comments being made around this table, particularly those by my colleagues Mr. Lawrence and Mr. Waugh. I believe both of them made really good points with regard to the carbon tax and the impact it's having on Canadians.

Mr. Waugh listed almost a dozen festivals and celebrations that are being cancelled or have been cancelled because money just isn't available. If we were to tap into that further, we would see that the reason money isn't available is that there are no individuals showing up at these things. There's a lack of demand. It's not a lack of want; it's a lack of demand.

To clarify, then, I'll say that Canadians want these things. They want to engage in cultural activities. With regard to Mr. Champoux's point, Canadians want to celebrate their culture, their tradition and their way of life, whatever that might be. There's a whole host of things within that. However, when they don't have the income to be able to participate in those activities, it results in a lack of demand. Again, the want is significant, but the demand is not. As a result, we're seeing these things being cancelled.

With regard to Mr. Lawrence's point, the carbon tax has a significant impact on the disposable income of a home and on people's ability to be able to afford activities within the realm of arts and culture. Instead of being able to engage in these activities, which tend to be a lot of fun and, as Mr. Lawrence said, provide the “why” to life, too many people are stressed out and concerned about affordability issues. We have literally millions of people in this country lining up at food banks every single month. We're told that we can expect another million to be added to that lineup in this coming year of 2024, in the months ahead of us. The reason is that Canadians are struggling to be able to pay their rents, to put fuel in their vehicles, to put food on their tables and to pay for other activities, such as putting their children in sports or the arts.

This is a problem. This is a really big problem. It is appropriate for this committee, then, to take that under consideration and to care about Canadians in this way. That is the reason for the motion that we've moved here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Mr. Gourde is next.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I will add my voice to that of my colleague Mrs. Thomas to explain the collateral damage of the carbon tax in the arts community.

I also want to respond to Mr. Champoux. He understands very well that Quebec chose to set up a carbon exchange about 10 years ago already because it felt pressure from the federal government. Knowing that the Liberal government was going to set up a carbon exchange, Quebec chose another path, but it might have chosen another path if it hadn't felt so much pressure knowing that there would be a carbon exchange in Canada in the future. This—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Mr. Champoux.