Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You raise an important point, Mr. Champoux. This money did not come from Canadian Heritage. I don't think that SSHRC is funded by Canadian Heritage; I think it's funded by ISED. Therefore, the question here is this: Who funded the motion, and is this motion appropriate at this committee?

I am going to try to find that out, because nobody's sure who funded the motion. I don't know if anybody has any information to offer on who funded this and on whether it is Canadian Heritage or ISED that funds the research councils.

As we know, ISED funds research councils, so that is an important question that you raise, and I think we need to get that answer. I don't know that the clerk can tell me, and I'm putting her in a difficult position, because the motion in itself, even though it was tabled a while ago, doesn't really ensure that it was Canadian Heritage that was responsible for this money. I think that if it is not Canadian Heritage, then this motion is going to be inadmissible in this particular committee.

Go ahead, Ms. Lattanzio.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, I believe I still had the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Do you still have the floor?

All right, go ahead.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I'd like to address another point that I find interesting. Again, I have no problem with the spirit of the motion. We do have to make sure that public funds go to organizations that meet the required criteria. However, I believe that if we open this discussion, we should open it up more broadly. There are other groups that are targeted as well. I think other groups targeted by hate speech should perhaps be included. Of course, we can discuss that when we see if the motion can be debated at this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I think that that's a question that we're going to have to ask.

Ms. Lattanzio, did you want to speak—

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

—to answer this question?

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I want to speak on—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I have a list, and you can go on the list, or if you have an answer to Mr. Champoux's question, I would entertain it.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Yes, it's—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Otherwise, I would have to go to Mr. Lawrence.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Yes, it would be with regard to to Mr. Champoux's comments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It's a point of information. All right. Go ahead.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

For my part, I too understand the spirit of this motion, Madam Chair, but I would agree with my colleague. Up until such time as we have the certainty as to who—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have a point of order, and then I want to give you the opportunity to respond.

I think that was fair, Madam Chair, but it's clear that this was a point of debate at this point. I don't mean any disrespect, but I was next on the list, and you could go to the list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No, I don't think it's a point of debate. Mr. Champoux asked a question. I did not have the answer. The clerk did not have the answer. Ms. Lattanzio says that she has the answer, so I'm giving her the opportunity to answer.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I have a point of order.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I don't have the answer. What I'm saying is that I—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You're saying that you don't have the answer.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I do have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Excuse me. Yes, go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, when the chair is asked a question, it is for the chair to answer. Ms. Lattanzio just said that she doesn't have the answer. Therefore, she is ceding that it is in fact debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

She told me initially that she was answering Mr. Champoux's question. I listened to that. She now says that she doesn't have an answer, so I'm going to rule her out of order. I'm the chair, and I think I can follow the rules quite nicely, thank you.

Ms. Lattanzio, you have to go after Mr. Lawrence in the lineup. Thank you.

Philip, you have the floor. Thank you.

I think I don't need you to remind me about the rules, Mrs. Thomas. You tend to do that a lot, because—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I know what the rules are, and you second-guess everything that people do. You literally second-guess everything. Ms. Lattanzio originally said that she had an answer. Now she says that she doesn't, so I have done the appropriate thing and have given Mr. Lawrence the floor.

Philip, go ahead.