Canadian Heritage Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Stephanie Geosits]

Like all boards , we have in camera sessions at the end of every board meeting. That's part of best practices. There are minutes kept of those meetings.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I will move on to the representation agreement, and the response of Canada's national women's and men's teams. This is a statement that was issued on July 13 of last year, speaking to Rick Westhead's article:

However, Rick Westhead's article raises serious concerns about whether Canada Soccer can be a proper steward of our sport and the revenues associated with the Women's and Men's National Teams under the current leadership and governance structure. It also raises serious concerns that the sponsorship and broadcast revenues associated with the National Teams for the next 15 years—important future revenue streams that are growing as a result of the players' success and the excitement surrounding the FIFA World Cup coming to Canada in 2026—are being transferred to owners of a for-profit professional men's league and used instead for their benefit.

Did the board do any evaluation of what the broadcast rights would actually entail? I cite the $250 million a year that is part of the broadcasting rights for MLS paid by Apple TV. These are huge sums of money.

Was there any discussion at the board level of what the actual evaluation of broadcast rights would be?

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

I can answer part of that question, and Mr. Cochrane can add his own remarks.

According to the information we received, we believe that in 2022, Canadian Soccer Business, or CSB, obtained approximately $8.2 million in sponsorships of all kinds. I say that with the caveat that Mr. Cochrane can expand on that. As I said earlier, as part of our partnership agreement with CSB, some of that money is to be returned to us and some of it is to be used to fund a Canadian league. So even if it was 50-50, that would be $4.1 million of that amount, which is about the revenue we get on an annual basis. So it's very close to reality, in terms of the sponsorship revenue that CSB receives versus the profit that we receive.

I would further add that...

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Excuse me, but I'm going to interrupt you. What I asked was if you had assessed the total value of those broadcasting rights. I understand that you have not.

I want to move on to another issue. Who, within the organization of Canada Soccer, is entitled to business class? Is this something that goes only to certain executive members? We've been hearing that our women's and men's teams have travelled in economy.

Finally, is it true that there have been special gifts provided to members of the leadership team?

[Earl Cochrane]

I can answer that question, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You are over time, but if you can give me a very quick answer, I'll allow it.

[Earl Cochrane]

I can be as succinct as possible.

Gifts provided to the board of directors are somewhere in the range of about $250 a year, and that is a Christmas gift. Generally speaking, what they receive are gifts related to Nike apparel and Canada Soccer branded apparel.

Business class flights are provided to our national teams who fly overseas. If a domestic flight is provided to our national teams, they fly premium economy. When our women's national teams flew to Australia and Brazil, the entire team flew in business class.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Cochrane.

That ends our first round. We now go to the second round. It's a five-minute round.

Once again, I would like everyone to please be as concise as possible in your questions and answers.

We begin the second round with the Conservatives and Marilyn Gladu.

Marilyn, you have five minutes, please.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I'll start with you, Mr. Cochrane.

Have you had any meetings with Minister of Sport St-Onge about safe sport?

[Earl Cochrane]

I haven't had any in-person meetings with the minister, but we've had several conversations over the last few months about safe sport, yes.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

What kinds of concerns did the minister express?

[Earl Cochrane]

Initially, the concerns were more about our involvement with the OSIC and the SDRCC, and about the creation of the independent third party. We were open and transparent with the minister and her office about our desire and intent to be a part of that body. We worked over the last several months of 2022 to make sure that was done, and we are now happily part of that group.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you.

I'm very happy to hear your words today about how you want to make sure there is pay equity and equal support for women in sport, because the day we had them at committee was the day an announcement came out that there would be movement in that direction. I'm happy to see that.

I'm a bit disturbed. We received a brief that is currently being translated for the rest of the committee members, essentially from whistle-blowers who want name protection. The report is called, “Unequal and Unsafe: The Women's Game Under Canada Soccer”. There are a lot of ugly allegations in it.

What I want to focus on, which we've seen in other sports, is sexual abuse that was not managed well. As I'm sure you're aware, there were numerous allegations against a Bob Birarda in 2008. Subsequently, he was charged in 2022, in B.C. He left your organization and went to coach provincially.

I want to understand how it could possibly happen that there were these allegations against this guy, and the board knew it in 2008 and let him go to another provincial organization and continue coaching girls.

[Stephanie Geosits]

Madam Chair, I can respond to the member's question.

That is referencing the case around Bob Birarda. As you described, there were failures and gaps at Canada Soccer at that time that allowed him to continue to coach.

Quite recently, within the last two years, Canada Soccer commissioned the McLaren report, an independent study to identify the gaps around this incident for Canada Soccer. Going forward, measures will be taken to ensure not only that this type of situation doesn't happen again, but also that Canada Soccer is better prepared to educate everyone within the soccer system and improve its safe sport practices. Those recommendations have been actioned by both the board—when it came to policy—and the operations teams. It has resulted in the creation of a safe sport roster and work with Allison Forsyth and ITP Sport.

Mr. Cochrane can correct me, but I believe there is an update, due to be released today, on how Canada Soccer has fared in complying with all those recommended steps.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

That's very good. I have one other question for Mr. Cochrane.

You mentioned the deal with CSB is a bad deal because, obviously, they get to make all the money from all of the franchised team paraphernalia.

How are you going to get out of this deal?

[Earl Cochrane]

To clarify, I didn't say it was a bad deal. I said it was a deal that required some modernization.

Quite frankly, when I took over the position I am in now, the Canadian Premier League and the CSB had just hired a new CEO at the same time. The moment he arrived, the two of us began having discussions about how we could modernize this agreement to further deliver some of the things they've been delivering for the previous four or five years—modernize it in such a way that it would be a benefit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Cochrane.

We'll now go to the Liberals and Lisa Hepfner.

Lisa, you have five minutes.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll pick up with Mr. Cochrane again, if I may.

Mr. Cochrane, I noticed that you professed a lot of respect and admiration for the members of the women's team during your opening statement. However, when they testified before us here, a couple of weeks ago, we heard that they don't feel respected by Canada Soccer and that they don't have confidence in Canada Soccer or faith that it's there to support them.

I'll read you a particular quote that stood out to me. Christine Sinclair said:

On a personal note, I have never been more insulted than I was by Canada Soccer's own president, Nick Bontis, when we met with him last year to discuss our concerns. I was tasked with outlining our compensation ask on behalf of the women's national team. The president of Canada Soccer listened to what I had to say. He then, later in the meeting, referred back to it as, “What was it Christine was bitching about?”

Would you respond to that comment? I don't know whether you were there. How do you react to hearing how she was treated during that meeting?

[Earl Cochrane]

Of course, if any of my colleagues would like to chime in.... However, I'm more than willing to start.

Christine Sinclair is a legend in our sport. She represents the best of what we are and the best of women's sport on the global stage. On behalf of Canada Soccer, I can assure the committee—and all Canadians, at the same time—that what was said and commented on does not represent how we view Christine Sinclair or the esteem in which we hold her.

I'm not sure whether Stephanie or Paul-Claude wants to add to that.

[Stephanie Geosits]

Yes.

As a board member, I can say that comment was unequivocally out of line and contrary to our values, which include respect. It was devastating to hear that comment directed at Christine or anyone else. The Canadian soccer community has values we are to live every day. The treatment of anyone in that manner is not okay or acceptable, and it flies in the face of what we stand for.

I was not party to the conversation referenced, but I was certainly taken aback and agree with Mr. Cochrane that Christine and her teammates are not only phenomenal, globally recognized soccer players but also role models. They need to be treated with the respect accorded to them.

To go back to my—

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you for that answer.

Moving on, Mr. Cochrane, you mentioned also that both teams will be paid the same regardless of their gender identity, but what we heard from the women's team players as well is that it isn't just about their own pay, but about equity in the way their teams are able to develop and the way young people in the sport are able to develop. They were talking about things like having enough staff, enough training and enough medical personnel, and having a professional league they can aspire to play in. Can you respond to those complaints?

[Earl Cochrane]

I can respond by saying that we have provided and will continue to provide our national teams with all the resources available to us to be successful. As I mentioned in our opening comments, we haven't been perfect, and we understand and recognize that we have made mistakes. When we make them, we try as quickly as possible to rectify them, and we did so after the meeting in Orlando to recognize some of the issues and some of the gaps that were existing that we needed to close. Immediately following that meeting, we held a board meeting to make sure the board was aware of the incremental spend that was going to be required to get the national team to a state where they were comfortable and felt like they were going to be successful.

What I will say, too, with regard to the professional league comment, is that about a year ago today, we engaged and hired a head of women's professional soccer to help drive this conversation forward. As this committee knows, Project 8, which is led by one of our former alumni, Diana Matheson, is looking to launch a league in 2025. We have met weekly with that group to ensure they are prepared to meet the criteria for membership but also the criteria to be able to run a league and sustain it in our country. We'll continue to work with them to make sure that's a reality.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

We go to Monsieur Lemire now.

Sébastien, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

How can you claim to have successfully developed women's soccer when you are about to leave them in the same boat, in the end? We are still seeing pay inequity and a lack of resources for preparation and the training centre. Moreover, the proposal for a collective agreement for the national teams was made on the very morning that representatives of the women's team were here to testify, before this very committee, as they so courageously did. I say to you in all sincerity, what you did is akin to a tackle and deserves a yellow card.

Now, have the amounts owed been paid in accordance with the timelines set forth in the agreement with Canadian Soccer Business? Have there been any defaults on payments?

Would it be possible to provide us with all the reports? We would like those to be sent here, to the Committee.

[Earl Cochrane]

If I could respond through you, Madam Chair, the commitment that we made to pay both of our national teams equally was started in January 2022, when we first met with the women's national team. In June 2022, the offer we put in place before the two national teams was all about pay equity, and it meant real equal pay, not percentages.

What it also committed to was finding an opportunity to equalize the high-performance environments they live and breathe in. That was the goal and the design. For the better part of eight to nine months, we had been negotiating in good faith and hadn't made, sometimes to the detriment of our association, any public comments—