Environment Committee on Oct. 26th, 2023

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

I am hoping, Mr. Chair, that this explanation with regard to the point of order does not take from my time.

[An hon. member]

Well, she could have cut him off—I don't know.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, let's continue with this.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

[Greg Carreau]

I'll be brief.

With regard to drinking water, Health Canada has also put in place drinking water quality guidelines for two classes of these chemicals. Then, more recently, it published a draft objective that is a broad approach to mitigating potential health risks from the broad class of these chemicals in drinking water.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Can I just intervene? I have a specific question about that.

I know that certain ones have been put on the toxic substances list and that others have been eliminated. However, there have been substitutions, and there are still concerns about those substitutions. I think that there was, at one point, a suggestion made to look at this whole class of chemicals. Is that being considered?

[Greg Carreau]

Indeed, that is being considered.

Currently the broad class is being considered, both for assessment and for potential management under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act for commercial uses, industrial uses and broad uses across Canada. In the drinking water context, that broad class is being considered through the drinking water objective, which sets a guideline or a number for which treatment can be achieved for that broad class of chemicals.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay, that's great. Thank you so much.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have another 45 seconds, I guess.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I want to ask Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada a question as well. It relates to the challenges that you spoke about with fertilizer application and control and the effect that it's having.

What more can be done? It's very broad, but what do you think is the most impactful thing that could be done now by farms to help manage the runoff that we're seeing into some of the freshwater lakes, particularly when you're talking about the increase in phosphorus and the algae blooms, which I know are of great concern to all of us?

[Kevin Norris]

I'll just say quickly that increasing the adoption of on-farm beneficial management practices that are available through our cost-sharing partnership with the provinces and territories is a good first step. AAFC also has ongoing research in this area.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We'll go now to Madame Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses very much for being here.

Mr. Barbosa, I may have a question for you later. Not so long ago, I listened to a report that said that 10 kilometres from Edmonton, so really close to this city, lives a first nation that doesn't have access to drinking water. You can even see the big buildings in Edmonton from there, but there's still no water coming out of the taps. This concerns me. I'll come back to it shortly.

For now, I'll talk to Mr. Carreau from Health Canada instead.

In your opening remarks, you all said there was collaboration. If that's the case, I don't understand why we want to create a Canadian water agency that's supposed to improve collaboration. There's a problem here. In fact, several examples illustrate the lack of communication and collaboration between government departments.

I'll give you a very concrete example. Last July, we learned that drinking water in the borough of La Baie was contaminated with PFAS, which we were talking about earlier. Activities at the Bagotville military base were the cause. We're talking here about more than 3,000 homes and 8,000 people exposed to these contaminants.

Military bases are the responsibility of the federal government, as is Health Canada. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Health Canada may be concerned about this risk to human health. However, the federal government has not shown its nose in this matter. If it has, it's only very recently. It was the municipality of Saguenay that took matters into its own hands, releasing $6 million.

I find this a good example of the lack of coordination.

If, in this framework, federal departments don't feel involved when they are directly involved, how can you say that a Canadian water agency is going to do better?

[Greg Carreau]

Thank you very much for the question.

I will first speak to the example you brought forward.

Indeed, Health Canada and the federal government collaborated very closely with the Province of Quebec and officials from the city with respect to the contamination of the water supply that you referenced. Health Canada provided strong scientific guidance and support and collaborated with other government departments, including the Department of National Defence, to support the Province of Quebec as well as the City of Saguenay in this case.

More broadly, Health Canada—

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'll stop you there, Mr. Carreau, because I have to say that the information I had was very recent. This event happened in early July. According to my information, it was the City of Saguenay that had to advance the funds. My understanding is that the federal government may be acting late.

Could a Canadian water agency do better? That's the question I was asking. Can you just give me a yes or no answer? Then I'll have another example for you.

[Greg Carreau]

Thank you for the question.

Indeed, as per my opening remarks, Health Canada believes that the creation of the water agency will help interdepartmental collaboration in better understanding the pollutants and contamination in fresh water supplies, which will ultimately lead to the protection of the health of Canadians through drinking water.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

That answer suits me.

I'm going to ask you another question, Mr. Carreau, but I'm also going to address Mr. Norris from Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada.

Do you or do you not have some control over your regulatory agency, which you praised a bit in your speaking notes?

[Greg Carreau]

Could you repeat the question, please?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Do you have any control over the PMRA, that is, the regulatory agency, yes or no?

[Greg Carreau]

For the provision of drinking water, provinces, territories and municipalities have the regulatory control, not Health Canada.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm referring, rather, to the regulatory agency. You mentioned it in your speaking notes. For my part, I'll tell you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Excuse me. You mean the one that deals with pesticides, right?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

That's right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That was confusing. So you're talking about the PMRA.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Yes, I'm talking about PMRA, the Pest Management Regulatory Agency.

Not long ago, a few months after the fact, we were made aware of a lack of transparency, rules that were absolutely ineffective, a committee whose co‑chair had resigned and a refusal by the agency to listen to researchers while consulting lobbyists. Indeed, the newspapers started talking about the “Tiger Team”. In the end, the PMRA was more concerned with protecting pesticide manufacturers than health. This was the conclusion reached in the various articles I consulted.

Basically, it's also a matter for Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, because industry is said to be recommending higher thresholds for certain insecticides and pesticides, such as neonicotinoids.

If the experts leave the advisory committee table, how do your respective departments plan to participate in the mission to protect riparian buffer strips and watersheds in agricultural areas?