Evidence of meeting #88 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was management.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you very much, Professor Orihel.
There is a vote. I assume all committee members are in agreement about following the same practice we did for the last vote. We'll continue until five minutes before the vote.
We now have Ms. McFadyen from the Assiniboine River Basin Initiative.
Go ahead. You have five minutes.
12:40 p.m.
Wanda McFadyen Executive Director, Assiniboine River Basin Initiative
Mr. Chair and committee members, on behalf of the Assiniboine River Basin Initiative, thank you for the opportunity to present before you today.
The Assiniboine River basin is a sub-basin within the Lake Winnipeg basin, which comprises the Qu'Appelle, Souris and Assiniboine rivers. The basin is approximately 162,000 square kilometres and home to over 1.7 million people.
As an organization, we are a multi-stakeholder non-profit that operates in both Canada and the United States. Our stakeholders include citizens, provincial and state governments, local governments, first nations tribes, Métis representatives, agricultural organizations, conservation and water-user organizations, cottage associations, business and industry groups, and all others who wish to come to the table on behalf of water.
It's my understanding that the committee has been asked to examine numerous topics in their consideration of responsibilities for freshwater protection and management throughout Canada. One of these topics is watershed management. That is the topic I was asked in my invitation to address.
As an organization, we have grown and matured since our inception. It has become clear that all stakeholders, at all levels, have vested interests in the role of true watershed management—not just management within a jurisdictional boundary of the watershed or basin in question, since we know water flows across the land and crosses these boundaries, be they municipal, provincial, state or international. We also know there are several smaller watersheds that merge and flow into the larger basins. For example, the Assiniboine starts in Saskatchewan, as do the Qu'Appelle and the Souris. They all cross provincial, state or international boundaries, so it's very important that we work together when we look at true watershed management.
Here in our basin, the flood of 2011 drove home the need for stakeholders across the Assiniboine River basin to come together to learn, understand and work on watershed management outside of jurisdictional boundaries. This flood devastated our basin. Thousands of people were displaced, and thousands of homes, businesses and acres of agricultural land were impacted. This was followed by a flood in 2014, which saw similar devastation across the basin. The flip side, of course, is drought, which we are experiencing at this point in time, along with dry agronomic conditions in various years. It is very real and needs to be looked at.
The underpinning of our organization is that a complete watershed approach must be embraced when looking at watershed management. There must be recognition that jurisdictional boundaries need to be reviewed. Legislation and policies need to be appreciated, but at the same time there is a need to work across them. The most important thing is transboundary communication, education, information sharing and co-operation on a watershed management scale. This is vitally important to our success as we move forward. Resilience is what our members are asking for. Integrated watershed management relates not only to water quality and quantity but also to increasing awareness about the importance and value of water—not only surface water but also groundwater. This management should consider ecosystem health, biodiversity, fish, wildlife and wetlands through applied best management practices and incentive opportunities for landowners.
The land issue should also be taken into consideration, because there is an interface between water and land management. This can be through regenerative agriculture, irrigation improvements, management of natural areas, storing water on the landscape and a host of other tools.
Investment in science, research and technology needs to occur, in order to optimize water management to the best of our ability. There is the development of various models and tools, such as Aquanty's hydrogeospheric model, the prairie hydrology design and analysis product, LiDAR and others. Tools need to be put into the tool box to allow watershed managers to do the best job they can.
We also need to recognize and consider the three-legged stool of sustainability, those legs being social, economic and environmental. As an organization, we have worked across our basin with various organizations, such as the International Souris River Board, the Shellmouth Dam liaison committee and the Saskatchewan water council. We're engaged in research with the prairie water research committee under global water futures, the University of Regina, the University of Manitoba and a multitude of others.
On behalf of ARBI, I would encourage the committee to work across jurisdictional boundaries, be they municipal, provincial, or in some cases international, when considering water management. Communication, coordination and co-operation are all common goals leading to success.
To invest in working with grassroots stakeholders and organizations such as ourselves, the indigenous community, agriculture, conservation and a host of others—
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Unfortunately, I have to interrupt you, but you can share your information and knowledge during the question period.
Mr. Hudon, you have the floor for five minutes.
12:45 p.m.
Marc Hudon Member, Forum for Leadership on Water
Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.
Thank you for inviting me to appear before you today.
When we talk about water management on a watershed scale, we often think of lakes. In my case, the experience I’ve had is mainly linked to the St. Lawrence River as a whole and the Lake Ontario system. So I’m going to talk to you about that for a few minutes.
I’d like to tell you about two concrete success stories involving essential ingredients for water governance at the watershed level. The first is the St. Lawrence Action Plan, which came into being in the early 1990s and covers the entire St. Lawrence River. It is a federal government initiative in which the Quebec government is also participating.
The second model involves the regulation of the waters of Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River, as a result of the Boundary Waters Treaty of 1909. Its purpose is to regulate the flow of water from Lake Ontario into the St. Lawrence River. This enables all its uses, from supplying drinking water to commercial navigation and hydroelectricity.
These two models have been in use since their inception, thanks to key ingredients to make the recipe for water governance a long-term success. I’m talking here about respecting areas of jurisdiction, for example. It’s never perfect, but it can work very well. We’re talking about a vision and a mission adapted to the reality of each watershed. Local and regional knowledge, sustained scientific research and studies, citizen involvement in all processes and ongoing communications are key elements.
In the case of the St. Lawrence Action Plan, the government of Canada staffed the plan with leaders who believed in its mission, and who themselves formed work teams with champions for the various areas of activity to come. The strong commitment of these champions, who had both soft skills and know-how, was instrumental, and was reflected in the steps taken to establish a respectful collaboration with Quebec government representatives. It also ended up selecting its own champions, from among the many government departments involved, to participate in the development and implementation of areas of activity aimed at protecting the water of the St. Lawrence River.
Together, they promoted and supported citizen involvement through a non-profit organization called Stratégies Saint-Laurent. This organization coordinated the creation of ZIP committees for areas of prime concern along the St. Lawrence River. These multisector round tables established along the shores of the St. Lawrence and Saguenay rivers represent a form of participatory water governance for territories, in which local and regional players have worked together for decades. The efforts and work of each table generally complement the efforts of those in neighbouring sectors.
The other model I’d like to talk about concerns water level regulation in the St. Lawrence River and Lake Ontario watershed. The International Joint Commission, a binational body established in 1909, created an international board to regulate water levels on Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River. In this example, respect for jurisdictions, knowledge sharing, constant updating of data and scientific knowledge are necessary to regulate water levels to meet upstream and downstream water needs as equally as possible.
Added to this is the board’s own culture of transparency, supported by sustained joint communication efforts. These are necessary to inform people about how we respond to their recurring needs and problems, and to improve their understanding of water level management. The board strives to take into account their reality at all times, wherever they may be located within the watershed, without neglecting other quieter needs, such as those of ecosystems, i.e., ecological needs.
These two examples are not perfect. Several other initiatives have been launched, such as the Regroupement des organismes de bassins versants du Québec, or ROBVQ. This organization plays an essential role, as does Stratégies Saint-Laurent, through the key elements I’ve mentioned, such as sustained communication efforts. The same is true of similar initiatives elsewhere in the country.
For a long time, we wondered how we could unite all these local initiatives, from east to west and north to south, in a complementary way. The arrival of climate change is well documented, and populations across the country are directly affected by its dramatic consequences. These include, as we said earlier, forest fires, melting glaciers and the destruction of infrastructure.
The severity of these consequences across Canada is a possible thread that could motivate our government to present a vision linking and complementing existing watershed management initiatives to mitigate these negative effects and foster collaboration on an unprecedented scale.
I’d like to conclude by reminding you that, for the members of the group I represent, the Forum for Leadership on Water, or FLOW, it’s important that water management be based on the following five pillars: reconciliation with indigenous peoples, knowledge creation and mobilization, co‑operative federalism, the watershed-scale approach, of course, and deep reform of our laws and regulations.
Thank you for your attention.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you.
Mr. Mazier, you now have the floor for six minutes.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for coming this afternoon.
I'll start with Ms. McFadyen.
The Assiniboine River Basin Initiative covers quite a bit of Saskatchewan, Alberta, Manitoba and North Dakota as well—dips down into Minot and comes up. All that water ends up at The Forks in Winnipeg, and that's still all the same. Is that right? I don't know if it continues into Alberta or not, but it's quite a massive area in most of the Prairies.
I understand that Terry Duguid is the Prime Minister's special adviser for water. Seeing that the Prime Minister's water adviser is from Winnipeg.... We always say in Manitoba that all water in Manitoba leads to The Forks. I assume that the Assiniboine River Basin Initiative has consulted with Terry Duguid about the Canada water agency.
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Assiniboine River Basin Initiative
Thank you, committee member Mazier.
Yes, we have requested a meeting with MP Duguid. We are waiting for confirmation on that to learn more about the new Canada water agency, which is going to be based here in Winnipeg.
The Assiniboine River basin covers a large portion of southeastern Saskatchewan. Headwaters go as far west as Moose Jaw and Regina, as far north as Yorkton, bordering on Crow Lake, and then down to Minot, while they all flow back into Manitoba to meet the Red River at The Forks.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
You've asked for a meeting. How long have you been waiting?
12:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Assiniboine River Basin Initiative
We requested a meeting about four weeks ago, so we're hoping that we'll hear from MP Duguid in the very near future.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Okay.
Can you explain the difference between a watershed approach and a water basin approach? You talked a lot about that, but how does the basin-wide approach work?
12:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Assiniboine River Basin Initiative
The basin-wide approach is a level above a watershed. The Assiniboine River basin, for example, is comprised of three smaller watersheds—the Qu'Appelle, the Assiniboine and the Souris, the Souris being the main stem. All of those waters converge through those systems into the Assiniboine before they meet the Red River, so it's all part of the larger Lake Winnipeg basin. If you have the ability to look at that map, it includes a large chunk of Alberta and Saskatchewan. It includes the Red River system, which goes into the U.S. and Lake of the Woods, so it's a huge area that all comes into Lake Winnipeg and then flows north into Hudson Bay.
It's important, on a transboundary scale, for individuals or organizations to work across those borders, because those waters do flow, and legislation, policy, regulations and international law all impact that water. That's all part of where we live and work. Whether you're receiving it or delivering it, it's important that you work with your neighbours and understand their positions and where they come from. That's what we try to do as an organization, transcend those boundaries, share information and co-operate so there is a better understanding in each jurisdiction.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
It's nice that you touched on that transboundary responsibility.
Do you have any advice for us as we work on this study in working with international borders? What should we consider in this study?
12:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Assiniboine River Basin Initiative
Within the international boundaries, what we have learned with Saskatchewan, Manitoba and North Dakota with international waters is that the International Joint Commission looks at those. There are boundary treaties in place, but you also have to have co-operation and understanding at the grassroots level. It's important to build that trust, to share and to invite those individuals to bring their knowledge to the table.
When I say “grassroots”, I am referring not only to organizations like ours but to the indigenous community, agriculture and conservation. All of those groups bring a piece of the puzzle to the table to better understand water, and we can all learn from each other and build the trust and the network that are so vital to watershed management success.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
That leads to my next question.
I call them landscape managers. They're out there; they're living in the areas. They can have the biggest impact the most quickly, and they're probably the most affordable as well, at the end of the day.
Earlier today, one of the witnesses talked about natural infrastructure. We all know where to store water. We all know where it belongs, and we can work with Mother Nature at that time.
Can you provide some advice for the federal government for when we deal with water, even if it comes down to the water agency? What things should we consider? Can you tell us how important it is to make sure that those voices are at the table at all times and how important that communication is?
12:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Assiniboine River Basin Initiative
That's important to the success. Those grassroots individuals across all genres need to be at the table. They live it and breathe it every day. They can tell you where best to position a small water storage body. They can tell you the history of the flows. It's very important that they come to the table and that their knowledge, education and what they bring from the land be shared.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, I’d like to thank all the witnesses for being here with us today.
Mr. Hudon, your organization, FLOW, really pushed for the creation of the Canada Water Agency, or CWA. Now that this has been done, do you have any specific recommendations for the agency’s priorities?
1 p.m.
Member, Forum for Leadership on Water
The priority I have in mind is to appoint champions within the departments concerned, specifically to encourage partnerships with the various authorities at the local level, in the provinces, across Canada. This is one of the key elements that I consider to be the foundation, if I may say so.
Ms. McFadyen spoke earlier about the importance of listening to the grassroots. My image of that is of a pyramid. You have to go from the bottom up. All this work, the vision adopted by the agency and by the people who will initially be put in place, will be reflected throughout the structure, so as to mobilize and involve people at the grassroots level to take ownership of this vision in the field. In my opinion, this is a key element. This is the first step, the starting point.
1 p.m.
Liberal
1 p.m.
Member, Forum for Leadership on Water
Among the challenges it will have to overcome, in my opinion, is the need for its leaders to be people who, rather than protecting their exclusive preserve, are transparent about the government’s vision for the Department of Environment and Climate Change.
The agency really needs to put in place people who believe in this mission, so as to avoid pitfalls and internal slowdowns in the structure. This would disappoint the public, whose expectations are high. As we heard in the testimony, in Canada, everything to do with water, including regulations, is compartmentalized and subdivided between different departments, and it’s very difficult to find your way around.
1 p.m.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
We’ll have to break down the silos; that’s what we’ll have to do. I agree with you.
I’d like to talk about the Canada-Quebec Agreement on the St. Lawrence, which expires in 2026. I’d like to hear Ms. Beisner’s comments, and I’ll come back to you, Mr. Hudon, because you also have a special interest in the St. Lawrence River.
Ms. Beisner, what do you see as the main considerations in renegotiating this agreement?
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Just a moment, Ms. Chatel. I have to interrupt you to check a point.
After you, Ms. Chatel, there will be plenty of time left for Ms. Pauzé and Mr. Bachrach.
You have the floor, Ms. Beisner.
1 p.m.
Professor and Researcher, Université du Québec à Montréal, As an Individual
My expertise is not in politics or governance, but more in science. The agreement is certainly very critical. We need to value it. As mentioned by the ZIP committee representatives, I find the round tables very useful in terms of water management.
I’m the director of a research group, and we often take part in these meetings. They provide a forum for building consensus between the various parties responsible for water and other elements of society, who often call on scientific experts. So I think it’s a great way of bringing people together around the goal of better water conservation.