Evidence of meeting #49 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was request.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:25 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Well, that's my view, sir.
The other thing you have to understand is that—
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON
Do you have a legal opinion that states that this would be injurious to the conduct of international affairs?
9:25 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I don't necessarily need a legal opinion to make that determination, sir, and it's well documented in the file.
The other thing is that the matter is under investigation. I can understand the frustration of Canadians when I do reply to them and invoke certain provisions to block information. But I am bound by this obligation under the act to look at this information and make decisions like that.
I do have—
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you very much. I have very little time.
Why was it stated by the department on March 22 that there were no records? This was in response to the January 24 request by the professor.
9:25 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I'm sorry, could you repeat that for me?
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON
There was an access to information request made by Professor Attaran on January 24 of this year. There was one by reporter Esau of The Globe and Mail. On March 22, the department stated that there were no such records dealing with human rights abuses.
9:25 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Okay, so we're talking about two different requests. Is the request by Mr. Esau the one you want me to speak about?
Then I think our response was that the records requested didn't exist.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON
And yet records such as these go back for years. How could your department have made that mistake?
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Executive Services Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Again, speaking without the files in front of us, Mr. Esau's original request to the department was for a global report. The access to information division went to the division responsible for human rights. They came back and said we don't do such a report, similar to the type of global report that the United States and the United Kingdom produce.
The ATIP division then challenged that by also consulting the legal bureau in the department, which also has a section that covers international humanitarian law and human rights law; they similarly said.
We went back to the client and advised that there was no such report. The file was essentially closed.
Subsequent to that, there was an exchange of e-mails, and I believe some phone calls, between Mr. Esau and officers in the ATIP division that further clarified the question. Mr. Esau said he had thought at one point--I'm paraphrasing slightly--that there was a global report with chapters in it. He mentioned specifically a chapter on China and a chapter on Iran, I think.
We don't do a global report like that. We told him we do reports on individual countries. We also explained that if he wished to have the reports on all the countries we do, an extensive search, then at that point the client has to pay. But he was told that if he wished to identify a country or other countries or a number of countries that he wished to have reports on human rights searched for--and the years, obviously--we would be pleased to accommodate him. At that point, if I recall correctly, he advised that he had already submitted a separate request for the human rights report on Afghanistan.
Thank you.
9:30 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I would like Ms. Sabourin to tell us, from her perspective, exactly what stages were involved in Mr. Attaran's access to information requests.
9:30 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes, absolutely.
9:30 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I would also like to have dates. Furthermore, contrary to Ms. Thomsen, you were providing the names of the individuals you spoke to, and not simply the names of the services.
Thank you.
9:30 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
You understand that I do not have the file at my fingertips.
9:30 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
No, I do not understand why you do not have the file at your fingertips.
9:30 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Then may I—
9:30 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
We didn't invite you to come before us to talk about the temperature outside. We had you come here so that you could discuss Mr. Attaran's and Mr. Esau's files with us. Therefore, I do not understand at all.
9:30 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
In fact, we received a request on January 29, an access to information request from Mr. Attaran. We read the request just as we do for all other requests, that is the 500 or 1,000 other requests that I deal with in my office.
9:30 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
The team leader.
9:30 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
The team leader in that case was Jennifer Nixon. She is responsible for considering the request and referring it to someone. She must first look at it herself and make sure that the request is for information that is in fact held by the Department of Foreign Affairs.
She then assigns the file to someone. I believe she kept it for a certain amount of time before assigning it to someone because there was considerable staff turnover. The file was finally referred to the Mr. Gary Switzer, the analyst responsible for that file.
My office then sent a message to administration.
9:30 a.m.
Director, Access to Information and Privacy Protection Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
No, I was not the one who sent it.
