Evidence of meeting #10 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mulroney.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Moving on in that direction, then, were you aware that Mr. Moores had an interest in GCI at the time, when you appointed him to the board of Air Canada?
12:50 p.m.
P.C., As an Individual
I don't think GCI existed at the time. I think he and a fine young man from Winnipeg, Jamie Burns, had an embryonic organization here called Alta Vista—I think that was it—and I think they worked together, and when he was appointed to the board of Air Canada, along with many others, his appointment lasted hardly at all, as I remember, because it was ascertained that he had received a mandate from Wardair and he was in conflict with Wardair.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Thank you, sir.
When Mr. Schreiber was here he made some subtle suggestion that decisions of major purchases go far beyond government, even beyond the Prime Minister's Office, and involve other players. Would you want to comment on that? Is there truth to those kinds of allegations?
12:50 p.m.
P.C., As an Individual
Well, I'm not familiar with the international conspiracies very well. The Germans, the Liberals, the Conservatives, Irwin Cotler, me, Stephen Harper, all of you--I'm not too familiar with that. So I would be like most Canadians: I don't have a clue what he's talking about.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Well, that's settling.
We have brought forward some important legislation, the Accountability Act. During your tenure as Prime Minister, did decisions like Airbus pass significant scrutiny to avoid suspicion, the very things we're talking about?
We have now enacted and put these things into place, but at the time, were there enough measures to make sure we could be assured that this was a good deal and it passed the litmus test?
12:50 p.m.
P.C., As an Individual
You know, life moves on. This was twenty years ago. Ottawa was different then; life was different. So you are all to be congratulated for the rigour that all of you now bring to public policy, which is greater than in our time. I think it's tremendous. I think the Accountability Act that you brought in is excellent. The more rigour, the more transparency, the better it is and the better it will be.
The Airbus matter was examined by the RCMP, then re-examined by the RCMP, and then the examination went on for another six years to 2003, when I received a letter from the commissioner saying there's nothing here. We've investigated this both in Canada and around the world. After an exhaustive inquiry by the RCMP, there's nothing here and no charges will ever be laid.
Although we don't have the instruments of transparency that you have given yourselves--which is much to your credit--in this case that you raise, it was clean as a hound's tooth.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Thank you.
I've been advised, Mr. Mulroney, that you would like an opportunity to make a brief closing statement to the committee. If you're prepared at this time, we'll hear from you now.
12:55 p.m.
P.C., As an Individual
It will be extremely brief.
I want to thank all the members of the committee, from all parties, for taking the time to examine this matter. You'll draw whatever conclusions you think are appropriate.
This has been another very demanding and brutal time for my family and me. Only through courts or through the Parliament of Canada can the rights of individuals be protected, and it's up to you to judge the credibility of people who appear before you and swear to tell you the truth, which I have done: I've sworn to tell you the truth, and I've told you the absolute truth.
I won't go into any of the stuff that was.... False affidavits, false statements, a letter of extortion, and blackmail.... This has to tell you something of the kind of person you're dealing with, and the kind of man. What regard would he have for your reputation if you were part of his “get out of jail” possibility? You'd be going down in flames. He tried to take me down in flames, and he'll take anybody down. He threw Elmer MacKay under the bus. Elmer MacKay was one of the most outstanding public servants I've known, along with his son.
He doesn't care about anything--except himself, and staying away from Germany.
Look, I'll conclude, Mr. Chairman, by simply saying this: on December 2, 1995, Mr. Schreiber was interviewed by the Toronto Sun. “Accusations of bribery against Brian Mulroney are as much of a hoax as the Hitler diaries, German dealmaker Karlheinz Schreiber says.”
In an exclusive interview with The Saturday Sun, Schreiber yesterday said the former Tory prime minister was “totally innocent” of RCMP allegations he accepted $5 million in kickbacks as a result of Airbus commissions, nor was a Swiss bank account ever opened for him.
Listen to this:
“As much as I am involved, as much as I know, as much as I have seen, Mr. Mulroney is totally innocent,” he said. “He is involved in this as much as the Pope--nowhere at all.”
Then, a few days ago, in the Toronto Star of November 15, they refer to an interview he gave the Toronto Star in the year 2000. Listen to this brief quote:
In an interview with two Toronto Star reporters, a few months after he had been arrested by the RCMP and released on bail, Schreiber was adamant Mulroney hadn't done anything wrong. “Mulroney is as innocent as the Pope,” he said. “The records can prove it.”
I conclude with one word, Mr. Chairman, for all of us, and certainly for me as well: it's probably part of human nature. From Sir John A. Macdonald on, every prime minister has made mistakes, and as I said in my memoirs, I've made more than my share, with every prime minister in Canadian history. Part of the greatness of Sir John was that he was flawed, as I suppose all of us are in some way.
But the most difficult thing in life, I think, is to admit one's mistakes, although it's the most important. Take it from me, it's even harder to do so in public. I hope others will do the same with their mistakes--if not for me, for my family, because it's the right thing to do for me and for them.
So ladies and gentlemen of the committee, I thank you for having taken the time to listen to me. I wish you all happy holidays with your families as well as a Happy New Year.
Thank you very much.
1 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Thank you, Mr. Mulroney.
Clearly, there are some discrepancies in the testimony that we have received from two witnesses. It would appear that there will be more questions of interest and we likely will be asking you, once again, to come back some time in February or later. We hope that you will be able to come back to further clarify, if necessary, any outstanding matters. And I share with you the extension of the wish, to all, of a very Merry Christmas.
1 p.m.
P.C., As an Individual
I thank you, Mr. Chairman, in particular for your courtesy.