Evidence of meeting #69 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:05 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
I started out by saying that you had talked about an independent committee for due diligence.
6:05 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
In connection with the criteria, the committee's role was to draft a mandate of what would be required of investigators in terms of legal and accounting matters.
6:05 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
In order to be independent, there are not supposed to be any ties. Is that right?
6:05 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
That's right. You will see in the minutes of the board meeting, that everything was up for debate.
6:05 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Okay.
If there are not supposed to be any ties in order to be independent, is Mr. Johnston then independent as a rapporteur, given that he is tied?
6:05 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
You're asking me to comment on government decisions that I have not been following closely.
My view is that David Johnston is a Canadian who is above suspicion. He is a very honourable man in the true sense of the word, and not just because of his title. I believe that Canada can place its full trust in him for any task, to be perfectly frank.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you Mr. Villemure and Mr. Trudeau.
Mr. Green, you have two and a half minutes, sir. Go ahead.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you. I'm going to follow along that line of questioning.
We put this to Mr. Rosenberg. You may have watched it.
You have spoken about some of the tensions at the board about an independent audit. We're now in a time when there are allegations that the Chinese government has directly intimidated and threatened an MP. We're at a time when there are allegations of interference in the 2019 and 2021 elections. We're now at a time when these allegations and leaks—unverified and honest leaks, supposedly from CSIS or who knows where—are out against the foundation, and Mr. Johnston has been appointed to be a special rapporteur.
It is our position as New Democrats, and it is my position, that there be an independent public inquiry into foreign interference.
I'm to take it, sir, that you're here today in some regard to protect the family's legacy and the foundation. Should there be a public inquiry, I'm wondering if you would be open to having the things that have transpired here being handed over to a public inquiry—much like the Rouleau commission, which provided a really good framework—to take that forensic audit into the foundation to assure the public that at no time was the foundation used as a vehicle to influence the Prime Minister.
Would you be open to that?
6:10 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Look, I'm not a decider at the foundation currently. I'm not on the board, so—
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'm asking you as someone who was there as a member of the family—
6:10 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
As I've said all along, I think any efforts to....
At some point, I am here today to say we're wasting our time on the notion of interference. I have seen no trace of it, and I don't think—
6:10 p.m.
NDP
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Unfortunately, when it comes to things like interest, conflict of interest and pecuniary interest, it's as much about the perception as it is the reality. I am going to take you at your word and I am going to take you at your testimony here today, but you have an interest in clearing the air about it.
6:10 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I want to defend the foundation, for sure.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Yes, and in fairness to your family, I imagine you would want to defend the legacy of your father, who's now been brought in to this really murky world—
6:10 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I think my father's legacy is elsewhere, out of all of this, in many ways.
As I said, I think this is a great distraction from the important mission of the foundation.
6:10 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I can only welcome, frankly, any efforts to bring clarity to it in all forms.
I'm not a decider of these things. I know the board is launching an independent inquiry, as was the goal for these last weeks, which brought about the squabble that we're talking about.
I know the chair of the board asked the Auditor General to look at our affairs, so the opportunity.... I'm not a lawyer either, but the courts may be a place to deal with this as well. The courts are truly impartial. This is a political forum, and we have to understand that everyone here has an agenda, so it's not necessarily the best place to get at the truth, but I want the truth to come out for sure.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Green and Mr. Trudeau.
We're still on the five-minute round.
Mr. Brock, you have the floor for five minutes, sir. Go ahead.
May 3rd, 2023 / 6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Trudeau, your claim that you have a fraternal relationship with your brother is not entirely accurate. You helped in your brother's nomination race in 2008 and you were extremely important in his leadership campaign in 2013. Before your brother left for China in 2016, he read your book, and five days after he returned from that trip, he showed up at a promotional event with you for your book.
Under those circumstances, would you agree with me that the two wealthy billionaire Chinese nationals with direct links to the Communist regime who were influencing you were directly influencing the Prime Minister?
6:10 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
No. I disagree with those qualifications entirely.
I didn't play an important role in 2013. I wasn't involved in 2013. I helped my brother at the very beginning of 2012, when he had an embryonic team, and I helped in a very fraternal way—
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you, Mr. Trudeau.
I want to confirm a number of points. I'm doing some cleanup here.
You only signed one donation in the foundation's history, which is the now infamous $200,000 from the Beijing regime. Is that correct?
6:10 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I think we've gone over this time and time again. I've told you why I signed it.