Evidence of meeting #69 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
6 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I would say so, yes. I'm not an accountant or a financial expert, but that's a good start.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
As you mentioned, the Bank of Montreal held their bank accounts, so there are obligations on the bank in terms of diligence on companies before they would open such an account. As well, you would be able to rely on something like that.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Excellent.
Then we're get into the question of the donation. People have been throwing around different figures. I've heard $200,000 many times. It was $140,000, correct?
6 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
The contract was for $200,000 to do conferences, but the payouts were in two portions. The payout of $140,000 was made, and it was decided for political reasons that we weren't going to take the last portion because we weren't going to do the program anyhow.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Exactly, so when when I get to that question of $140,000, how material was that? How much money was in the bank account of the Trudeau foundation at the time? How much money was there?
6 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Well, it was somewhere around $145 million, perhaps.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
It was $145 million, so the $140,000 was something that clearly was a pretty small amount in the overall context of everything.
6 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Yes, and I've wanted to expand on the need for academic diplomacy. It was never about the money. It was trying to get brilliant Chinese students exposed to Canadian ways.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Perfect, and the tax receipt for the donation was made to the company that made the donation.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
There's been a lot of concern that it was mailed somewhere in China to somebody's home. If I'm a Canadian living abroad and I get my tax documents at the home where I'm living abroad, I still have to file my Canadian taxes with proof of donations. Do you know of any reason that anybody would use a Canadian tax donation if they don't have to pay taxes in Canada?
6 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Again, I'm not a.... But as Mr. Rosenberg said yesterday, it's quite clearly only of use for a Canadian company for their Canadian tax declaration. That seems pretty clear to me.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
In order to pay taxes in Canada, you must have other activities in Canada. Otherwise, you wouldn't be liable for taxation in Canada, right?
6 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Yes, you must have income in Canada.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Then it wasn't a shell company doing nothing. They clearly had some income of some type.
Let me ask you this question also.
It's easy to throw around chronologies and to say that the Liberals were surging in the polls in September 2015, and so was Hillary Clinton at that time in the Democratic primaries in the United States against Bernie Sanders, and so was Brexit. I can throw in a lot of different things that were happening at about that time when there was a chronology of things happening.
You mentioned the ceremony and the four parts of the agreement. Was the Trudeau family one of them? You mentioned signatories. Were there four lines where you also signed on behalf of the Trudeau family?
6:05 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
No, it was a three-part signature. I was signing on behalf of the foundation and of the family.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
“Of the family” because you were giving the Université de Montréal rights related to the use of the name of your dad, and you, as an executor of the will, needed to do that.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
The foundation couldn't do that. Mr. Rosenberg couldn't do that by himself.
6:05 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I guess I would have probably had to sign a procuration. Maybe I would have if I wasn't going to be there, but there was a ceremonial element, as Mr. Rosenberg mentioned. We all felt it was very appropriate and not untoward.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
That's perfect.
I don't know how much speaking time I have left, but I'd like to ask you one last question.
You mentioned a report. Which director wrote the report?
6:05 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
It was the three remaining directors and two of the others who left. They wrote it together.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Okay.
In order to testify today about what you feel happened, did you rely on what had been written by the directors who attended the meetings?
6:05 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Yes. There were also the lawyers who came and testified, and who continued to say that they had never formulated an opinion to the effect that there had been a conflict of interest that required changes in governance, including the resignation of the board chairperson.