Information & Ethics Committee on May 9th, 2023

[Edward Johnson]

I don't understand.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

All right, I'll phrase it differently.

Ms. Fournier wanted this committee to be completely independent, and not to include three board members.

[Edward Johnson]

I understand.

She agreed with me, initially. We talked about it in mid-March. For the overview, I always advocated for a committee of three independent people who had nothing to do with the foundation during the period in question. There was no resistance from her at that time.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

What changed?

[Edward Johnson]

I don't feel that she changed that much. She and I wanted an outside attorney who had had nothing to do with the foundation before, and a professional accounting company overseen by the attorney. However, I thought the oversight should be done by a committee of three board members. I don't recall seeing any resistance from her on that.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

You had a joint solution, but having those three members present was an issue, as I understand it from her testimony. Is that possible?

[Edward Johnson]

I didn't hear that in her testimony, but maybe I misunderstood her.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

There is no problem.

[Edward Johnson]

In my experience, there was no disagreement on this point.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

According to Mr. Alexandre Trudeau, the donation received from China was the first and only foreign donation made to the foundation. Is this the case, to your knowledge? I am not talking about $100 donations.

[Edward Johnson]

No, there were two or three other foreign donations.

John MacBain of the McCall MacBain Foundation made one of over $1 million, which was classified as foreign, because that foundation is based in Switzerland. However, Mr. MacBain is Canadian and was the chair of the foundation's board at the time.

Another Canadian board member who worked in California also made a substantial donation, a few hundred thousand dollars, as I recall. That was a foreign donation as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

Thank you, Mr. Villemure. I gave you a little more time.

Matthew, you have six minutes.

Go ahead, sir.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Johnson, during her appearance, Pascale Fournier explained that she had put a donation acceptance policy in place at the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation that involved a thorough review of donors. Prior to Ms. Fournier's presidency, did the foundation have a donor acceptance policy in place?

[Edward Johnson]

We had a donations policy I think since 2003.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Was it thorough?

[Edward Johnson]

To the best of my knowledge, it was state of the art at the time.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It was state of the art at the time?

[Edward Johnson]

Yes, when it was put in place and through the period during which it was in place.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

During the period when it was in place, as the foundation received donations, did it require an investigation into the source of the funds?

[Edward Johnson]

I don't recall the content of the policy.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

But it was thorough and state of the art.

[Edward Johnson]

That's right.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You would have been involved.

[Edward Johnson]

No, not entirely. That would be really management who would oversee the implementation—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Surely they would report to the board.