Finance Committee on Oct. 31st, 2011

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Very good, excellent.

Would the $2 billion gas tax fund becoming permanent in the budget be a measure welcomed by your organization?

[Lynne Wallace]

I'm afraid I don't know enough about that one to comment.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Very good.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have ten seconds.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you so much for coming.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Ms. Glover.

I want to thank all of you for coming here and presenting your recommendations to us for our pre-budget consultations.

We'll have a very quick switch-over and then we'll have our next panel, so I'll suspend for a couple of minutes. I'll thank our guests and then bring the next panel forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

We will begin our next panel. We have a very tight timeline, and I know members want to get their questions in.

We have six organizations with this panel. We have the Canadian Home Care Association; the Canadian Association of Retired Persons; the Canadian Caregiver Coalition; the National Marine Manufacturers Association of Canada; the Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists; and we have the Canadian Association for Community Living.

Thank you all for being with us. As I mentioned, we are on a very tight timeline, so you have five minutes for your opening statement.

We'll begin with Ms. McAlister, please.

[Marg McAlister, Director, Policy and Research, Canadian Home Care Association]

Thank you.

Good morning, and thank you for the invitation to present to you today.

I'm the director of policy and research at the Canadian Home Care Association, and I'm here to address our recommendations regarding home care in Canada. The Canadian Home Care Association is a not-for-profit membership organization dedicated to ensuring the availability of accessible, responsive home care and community supports to enable people to stay in their homes with safety, dignity, and quality of life.

The association is governed by an elected board that has representation from every province, territory, and the federally funded programs. Members of the association are diverse and inclusive of all who have an interest in home care. We have provided you with a written briefing note, and the recommendations that I will address today are as follows. First of all, we recommend targeting funding to support the development and implementation of innovation and innovative technologies to optimize the delivery of home care and empower Canadians to become involved in their own health and wellness. Secondly, we recommend tasking an expert panel to articulate a set of harmonized principles for a national home care program, so that Canadians clearly understand their rights, options, and resources for home care. Our third recommendation is for the establishment of a caregiver strategy for Canada, as a framework for directing and coordinating measures to support family caregivers who assume extraordinary financial burdens in order to support the delivery of home care. This recommendation will be addressed by Nadine Henningsen from the Canadian Caregiver Coalition.

First of all, to clarify, home care is the term for the services and programs that Canadians of all ages use to recover or manage their health care issues in their home settings. For many of our seniors, home care allows them to age in place, surrounded by family, friends, and their community, to which they can continue to make a meaningful contribution. Home care helps keep communities intact.

Home care is a critical component of health care restructuring. It is cost-effective and care-effective for those with short-term, acute needs post-hospital, and for those with longer-term care requirements—typically the elderly, who as a result of home care can avoid premature placement in an institution, or a sudden health crisis requiring extensive interventions from the acute sector. Home care needs to be the first option for care in Canada.

A consequence of moving health care to the home has been a shifting of the responsibilities for cost from the public purse to the individual, disadvantaging a large number of Canadians. At a minimum, families assume the accommodation costs while a person is ill, and in some cases—depending on the jurisdiction—must finance equipment, supplies, services, and medication. These costs heretofore were borne by the health care system. It is a major reason that federal intervention is required.

To speak to our first recommendation, innovation and technology in home care in Canada is lacking. However, there is evidence that technology solutions increase efficiency and effectiveness, thereby enhancing health care and home care capacity. Innovative technology is an enabler to improving linkages between health system partners. Active and passive remote monitoring has been shown to effectively complement the home care practitioners, enabling access to care when the provider cannot be present in person.

Electronic documentation systems enhance the ability for providers to connect and share information in a timely way, thereby improving service and decreasing time spent on communication and redundant clerical activities. This electronic connectivity will be most effective when broadband coverage is available across all corners of the country. I think the effective technology will help to ensure that our health system is appropriately used.

I do want to draw your attention to the second recommendation, which is our national health care program, which is a source of pride, and we do believe that it's time for Canada to develop a set of harmonized principles that will support care at home.

Securing Canada's system of universal health care involves embracing a new paradigm. Health care treatments and options have evolved, and as a result, health care today is much broader than hospital and physician-based delivery. The introduction of a national home care program with a set of pan-Canadian principles would serve to preserve the social safety net that is intended by our publicly funded health care system. So we request that the government task an expert panel to articulate this set of principles for a national home care program.

The Canadian Home Care Association believes these recommendations align with the government's goal of prosperity and a high standard of living for all and that they are fiscally responsible. The return on investment for every dollar to support the provision of home care is financially enhanced by the in-kind contribution of families.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to Mrs. Eng, please.

[Susan Eng, Vice-President, Advocacy, Canadian Association of Retired Persons]

Thank you very much.

CARP is a national, non-profit, non-partisan association. We have 350,000 members in 50 chapters across the country. We advocate for public policy changes that will improve our quality of life as all Canadians age. A top priority for us, of course, is our retirement security.

Canadians spend their working years building towards a secure and dignified retirement. As Canadians age, they want to provide for themselves and their families and to stay in their own homes as long as possible. For too many Canadians, this is a challenge they cannot meet alone. Government has a role to play. This was recognized in recent federal policy changes that top up the GIS to help the poorest seniors. The caregiver tax credit is certainly an important improvement in support for the estimated 2.7 million Canadians caring for loved ones at home. With regard to the pension reform proposals, we expect government leadership to help Canadians better save for their own retirement.

Nonetheless, we believe that each of these policy changes can be improved. The massive losses in retirement savings caused by the recession and concerns over the sustainability of the health care system require further government action to help Canadians help themselves to save for and maintain their standards of living in retirement, and to look after their own health and well-being in dignity. CARP therefore recommends the federal government target three major issues regarding retirement security.

The economic downturn has exacerbated fears of outliving our money. Hard-earned retirement savings have already been eroded in the market crash, and mandated RRIF withdrawals limit participation in the modest recovery. Claw-back rules punish those who try to help themselves, especially the most disadvantaged.

Income inequality in Canada has increased over the past 20 years. A recent Conference Board of Canada report on poverty identified seniors, especially women, as the most at risk of living in poverty. Between 2006 and 2009, nearly 128,000 more seniors became low-income. Of that number, an overwhelming 70% are women. Exacerbating the problems of single seniors is the fact that the OAS allowance for people aged 60 to 64 is not available to those who are single, divorced, separated, or married to someone who is not yet 65. Further, Statistics Canada reports that an astounding almost 160,000 eligible Canadians over 65 are not receiving their GIS. Effectively, almost 12% of those eligible are not receiving their GIS payments due in large part to the complexity of the process. We recommend auto-enrollment as a possible solution to that problem.

We recommend a comprehensive readjustment of tax and income support policies to facilitate and remove barriers to retirement security, including getting rid of the mandated RRIF withdrawals, certain OAS claw-back rules, improving the GIS eligibility rules, and providing an equivalent-to-spouse allowance for single seniors.

The second focus we have is on the retirement savings gap. Millions of Canadians without a workplace pension need access to a universally accessible and affordable retirement savings vehicle that will provide a reliable and adequate retirement income. A proposed pooled registered pension plan, PRPP, acknowledges that need and improves on the status quo but lacks important safeguards that will ensure an adequate retirement income. There is time and opportunity for us to learn from the negative experience of a similar system in Australia, and the positive example of the CPP.

CARP recommends that safeguards be implemented for the PRPPs, such as fee caps, and further consideration be given to providing target or defined benefits, such as through a supplementary CPP or a public option PRPP, to ensure Canadians have the best possible options to provide adequately for their own retirement.

Finally, I am in full support of the recommendations for providing a better aging-at-home strategy across Canada. We were pleased to provide our submission to the health committee last Monday. The one point I want to leave you with about home care, because it has been well covered, is that it presents a potential positive opportunity to divert a massive amount of demand on the health care system if we do home care properly.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you for the presentation.

We'll now hear from the Canadian Caregiver Coalition.

[Nadine Henningsen, President, Canadian Caregiver Coalition]

Thank you so much for the invitation to present to you.

The Canadian Caregiver Coalition is a national body, representing over 40 national and regional organizations that have identified caregiving as a priority. The Caregiver Coalition estimates that five million Canadians provide support for loved ones and friends who are in need of care because of age, disabling medical conditions, chronic injury, long-term illness, or disability.

Caring for family is not new; however, the context of caring in Canada today is very different. The number of Canadians who need help is increasing, families are smaller and more dispersed, there are more women in the formal workforce, marriage and childbearing often occur later in life, retirement is delayed, the population is aging, and there's an increased life expectancy, which likely will involve a disability or a chronic illness. The new reality is that caring for an aging parent or family member is becoming a normal part of life for an increasing number of Canadians. At the coalition, we say it's not if, it's when you'll become a family caregiver.

Women most often fulfill the caregiving responsibilities; however, 10% of all Canadian men are now family caregivers, and this number is increasing. Caregivers provide an average of 10 hours of care per week, with 60% of caregivers providing care for more than three years. The majority of caregivers have household incomes below the national average. Only 35% of caregiver households report an income over $45,000. Two-thirds of caregivers spend more than $100 a month on caregiving responsibilities and costs. The economic cost to replace family caregivers with a paid workforce at current market rates would be $25 billion.

The coalition believes that the federal government has a vital role to play as a catalyst and a partner in establishing a national caregiver strategy that includes five critical elements that have been identified by family caregivers across Canada: one, safeguarding the health and well-being of family caregivers and increasing the flexibility and availability of respite care; two, minimizing excessive financial burden placed on family caregivers; three, enabling access to user-friendly information and education; four, creating flexible work environments that respect caregiving responsibilities; and five, investing in research so that we know that numbers one, two, three, and four are actually being effective.

The federal government has implemented supports to minimize excessive financial burden placed on family caregivers in the form of three tax credits: the caregiver tax credit, the informed dependant tax credit, and the newly introduced family caregiver tax credit. The coalition congratulates the government and supports these tax measures; however, the challenge with the current tax measures is that they are non-refundable credits and will provide no assistance to modest- and low-income households that pay little or no income tax.

Additionally, the Canadians who could benefit from these tax credits are not aware of the resources. Two actions could enhance this financial support: first, convert the non-refundable credits to refundable credits, so that all Canadians with caregiver-related costs, regardless of income, will benefit from these tax measures; second, develop an awareness campaign to educate Canadians on the availability of these measures to minimize excessive financial burden.

Another element within the caregiver strategy that the federal government could play a critical role in is creating flexible work environments that respect caregiver obligations. Family caregivers must constantly balance the responsibilities at work with the demands of providing care. Employers bear these costs and this challenge through absenteeism, lost productivity, and loss of potential human resources. According to Stats Canada, over half a million employed caregivers missed one or more days of work per month because of providing care. Collectively, this equalled 1.48 million days per month of absenteeism. Over 313,000 caregivers reduce their work hours to accommodate caregiver responsibilities. Collectively, this equals 2.2 million hours per week. Together the employment consequences of family caregiving represents an enormous loss of productivity to employers and to the economy in general, the equivalent of 157,000 full-time employees annually.

As the fifth-largest employer in the country, the federal government should undertake to examine and ensure that its policies are supportive of employees with caregiver responsibilities. The federal government should establish and participate in a working group that will examine current practices and introduce rewards for companies that have caregiver-friendly policies.

The coalition is concerned that without a national strategy and a commitment of the federal government through the influence of tax and labour policy, Canadians, particularly women, will be compelled to compromise not only their employment status, but also their health and well-being.

The federal government has demonstrated that it recognizes the tremendous time and resources required of family caregivers. By adopting these recommendations the government will be responding to Canadians who are called upon to play a caregiving role for their loved ones, and who are experiencing first-hand the financial, emotional, physical, and mental costs of taking on this role.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We'll now hear from the National Marine Manufacturers Association of Canada.

[Sara Anghel, Executive Director, National Marine Manufacturers Association Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for the opportunity to be here today.

As background, the National Marine Manufacturers Association is the leading association representing the recreational boating industry. Our member companies produce more than 80% of the boats, engines, trailers, accessories, and gear used by boaters in North America.

The association is dedicated to industry growth through programs focusing on public policy development, market research and data, product quality assurance, and marketing communications. We represent about 100 members in Canada and an additional 1,200 members in the United States.

At the time of our last economic impact study undertaken in 2006, it was revealed that the recreational boating industry produced close to 400,000 jobs directly and indirectly in Canada. This includes close to 7,000 well-paying manufacturing jobs. Our industry exports over $600 million worth of product to international markets, including the U.S. As a job creator for the manufacturing sector, our industry provides employment in communities and regions of Canada that would not necessarily realize employment opportunities otherwise.

Our members, including companies like Stanley Boats in Parry Sound, Princecraft Boats in Princeville, Quebec, and BRP in Valcourt, Quebec, are all proud to continue to contribute and invest in our local communities.

Among others, our members believe that creating a competitive tax system that allows these Canadian-made products to continue to be manufactured in Canada is a key aspect of building economic strength and stability across the country. Nearly six million Canadians are boaters, and of those six million boaters, most are middle-class families hailing from communities such as your own. Therefore, another recommendation for government is to continue to pursue and create opportunities and access for families to get out and enjoy boating within their communities by enabling tourism initiatives for local communities to participate in and leverage.

On that note, on behalf of our industry I would like to congratulate the government on the recent release of its federal tourism strategy. Given the range of businesses involved in the recreational boating industry, including marinas, hotels, and tourism operators among others, issues and challenges facing the tourism sector are of real importance to our members. We welcome the launch of this new strategy and we appreciate the opportunity to participate in the newly announced initiatives and round tables, as I believe our industry would bring a unique perspective to the table, focused on regional development, local job creation, and enabling the growth and sustainability of small and medium-sized enterprises.

I'd also like to voice our support for the global opportunities for associations program, administered by the Department of International Trade. Through programs like this one, which provide contributing funding to national associations undertaking new or extended international business development activities, Canadian businesses can grow and expand their Canadian-made products beyond North America.

Our association recently also had the opportunity to participate in the Canada-U.S. manufacturing summit hosted in Montreal. Many issues of importance to manufacturers were discussed, including the issue of trade barriers. Our association supports the government's initiative to expand market access for Canadian industries through the negotiation of new economic and trade agreements with trading partners such as the EU.

I encourage the government to continue in its effort to simplify rules of origin, taking into account the nature of North American supply chains to lower the administrative burden on producers and manufacturers. Furthermore, I encourage the government in its ongoing negotiations with key trading partners to greatly reduce or eliminate tariff barriers as they apply to boat manufacturers in order to expand export opportunities for Canadian manufacturers in these markets.

Thank you for the time to be here before you today.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you for your presentation.

We'll now hear from Ms. Downey from ACTRA, please.

[Ferne Downey, National President, Alliance of Canadian Cinema, Television and Radio Artists]

Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Ferne Downey. I'm a professional actor and the national president of ACTRA, Alliance of Canadian Cinema,Television and Radio Artists.

It's a great honour to be here today as the voice of 22,000 professional performers whose work entertains, educates, and informs audiences in Canada and around the world. I'm also speaking on behalf of the 17,000 members of the Canadian Federation of Musicians.

Performers are embracing all the opportunities transmedia is opening up. In addition to television, film, and radio, we are now performing in video games, mobile apps, and webisodes. You name it, we're in it. The Cultural Human Resources Council has been indispensable in encouraging artists to get out ahead of the digital revolution by expanding the relevant skill sets, identifying deficiencies in current industry practices, and helping ensure creators are a fully integrated driver in Canada's digital economic strategy.

In fact, the CHRC released an excellent report just last week—the digital Culture 3.0, done in cooperation with Nordicity. It covers the impact of digital technologies on the whole creative chain, from creation to production to dissemination to preservation. Make no mistake, content is at the heart of the digital economy. The reason we buy PlayBooks and iPads isn't just because of their looks; it's because they deliver content.

Canadian content creation is a serious business. Our cultural industries directly contribute more than $46 billion to our economy. The entire economic footprint of the cultural sector is $84.6 billion, or 7.4% of Canada's total real GDP, and contributes more than 1.1 million jobs to the economy. Film and television production alone created 117,000 jobs in 2009, and $1.7 billion in exports.

As you prepare the 2012 federal budget, we are here today to talk to you about job creation and building a mature digital economy infrastructure through smart investments in Canadian content. To that end, we propose three key planks for a sustainable digital economic plan: one, public investment in content creation; two, incentives to encourage private investment in content creation; and three, securing shelf space for Canadian content.

First, let's look at public investment in content creation. I commend the government for making permanent the budgetary commitment to the Canada Media Fund in the last budget. Thank you. The CMF is a crucial component when it comes to producing Canadian content for all screens—programs like Flashpoint , Rick Mercer Report, Heartland, Republic of Doyle, and Combat Hospital. The CMF also supports innovative interactive productions, including console and online games, software, web series, portals, and social networks as well as mobile apps, and it's helping our talent make the content that people want, here and all around the world.

Canadians are spending more time watching domestically produced English-language television than ever before. Shows like Rookie Blue are breaking records in Canada and the U.S. and consistently winning their time slots. Last year CMF-funded programs were sold in 45 countries and regions spanning all continents.

This is an amazing start. It means we are sharing our own Canadian stories and we are creating jobs, but with our industry changing at a breakneck pace, we need to make sure the tools are in place to seize on new opportunity. So in addition to support for CMF, we urge you to commit to renewed long-term funding for Telefilm Canada, the CBC, and the National Film Board.

Telefilm Canada's Canadian feature film fund is critical to making sure Canadian films get made. Every dollar invested in a television production also triggers $2 in additional financing for digital media projects and $3 for feature film projects. It must be renewed.

CBC/Radio-Canada can be the leader in bringing original, distinctive Canadian digital content to the world. The National Film Board is recognized the world over. It's one of the great cultural laboratories for innovation. We must give these institutions the resources they need to flourish, to create jobs, and to make Canada a leader in digital content.

My second plank is increasing private investment. We don't want to rely on government funding alone. We need to build incentives to increase private investment in content creation. You can look at expanding the Canadian film or video production tax credit and the production services tax credits to count against the production's entire budget, not just labour costs.

My last plank is creating shelf space. Creating great Canadian content isn't enough. Our content must be given shelf space and it must be marketed and accessible.

We urge you to provide incentives to private companies to feature Canadian digital content on their websites. One way is to amend the Income Tax Act to give advertisers tax deductions for advertising on Canadian-owned websites that feature homegrown content. The idea is based on the existing section 19.1 of the act, which provides incentives for broadcasters to advertise on Canadian television stations instead of U.S. border stations.

Canadian culture is not a frill. It is a major industry based on renewable resources.

I thank you very much for your time today.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you for your presentation.

We'll now hear from the Canadian Association for Community Living.

[Michael Bach, Executive Vice-President, Canadian Association for Community Living]

Thank you for the opportunity to present to you today.

The Canadian Association for Community Living is the national association that represents the voice and interests of almost one million Canadians with intellectual disabilities and their families.

People with intellectual disabilities are one of the most stigmatized groups in Canadian society, often labelled in the past as people with mental retardation. People with intellectual disabilities have rejected that label and they have been looking for a rightful place in Canadian society.

Canada ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities in March 2010. We're grateful to all parties for the all-party resolution of December 2009 in committing Canada to this ratification, the first human rights treaty of the 21st century. However, it is far from being realized in Canadian society.

Today young people with intellectual disabilities who are in their last year of high school—that's if they have even been included, and only 40% are fully included in regular education in this country—are most likely to come out of high school looking at a lifetime of poverty. There are 75% of adults with intellectual disabilities who live in poverty, and almost 50% of welfare recipients are working-age adults with intellectual disabilities. They are a group who face one of the highest rates of violent victimization in this country.

We think it's time, as a country, that we confront this tragedy, and that's exactly what it is for so many people. What we're recommending for the 2012 budget is that we begin to look at economic recovery in this country in a way that is not only sustainable but inclusive as well. We think we've laid out some practical strategies for doing just that.

First, we're recommending that we do a targeted investment in the transition of young people with intellectual disabilities from high school on to post-secondary training and education. Of the pilot initiatives in a couple of provinces where young people with intellectual disabilities have been included in a post-secondary education, even if they may not graduate with the usual certification, the very fact of their presence gives them an opportunity to learn and be connected to others. We're seeing employment rates of 80% of people who are graduating from the inclusive post-secondary education and training programs in Alberta.

We're recommending a targeted investment in young people with intellectual disabilities that we think could change the future for Canadians with intellectual disabilities in this country. If we fixed it for this generation, we could have a long-term impact, not only on those individuals but on their families. The reality for families with a member living with an intellectual disability is that parents have to downgrade their careers, and in most households, one has to leave the labour market altogether.

We also see a much higher rate of family restructuring and breakdown when families have members with intellectual disabilities. This means that women who have been caregivers and mothers entering their senior years having cared for family members with disabilities—and as a member of the Canadian Caregiver Coalition, we fully support their recommendations—are facing a future of poverty.

We're looking for targeted investment. We also think that a working group on the disability tax credit in this country would be deserving of this government's attention. We've recommended a high-level working group to look at refundability of the disability tax credit to begin to address the poverty of Canadians with both intellectual and other disabilities.

Finally, if I could reference the announcement from the Honourable Diane Finley on Friday on new terms for grants and contributions to recognize and pay for performance, we're supportive of efforts to increase the capacity of the voluntary sector in this country, but we think we need to be part of that discussion about what is going to count as success and how we can be supported to leverage investments to ensure we have community capacity in this country that truly does make a difference for people with disabilities and other marginalized groups.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We'll begin members' questions with Mr. Julian.

Let me formally welcome you to the committee, Mr. Julian, as the finance critic for the official opposition.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all our witnesses. You've brought forward a lot of very valuable information.

I think you have also underscored what we all know to be reality, that income and equality in this country have now been turned back. The clock has been turned back, according to many estimates, to 1929. So we're seeing profound levels of poverty in many areas of the population: younger Canadians, older Canadians, new Canadians, aboriginal Canadians, and Canadians with disabilities. We're seeing this broader and broader gulf.

Now we really have important decisions to make in an upcoming budget. The government has signalled it may be willing to spend up to $4 billion in the next stage of corporate tax cuts. What you're signalling here is that other investments are more important.

I'd like to ask Ms. McAlister in particular and Ms. Eng and Mr. Bach what the cost of not acting is. When we come to home care, we know that every dollar spent in home care actually saves a tremendous amount of money in our health care system. What would be the savings of investments in home care to our health care system, in addition to the quality of life issues?

For Ms. Eng, what would the investments in bringing seniors out of poverty mean for local economic development? Certainly in my community of New Westminster and Burnaby, the New Westminster Chamber of Commerce feels very strongly that seniors have to be lifted out of poverty.

For Mr. Bach, what difference does investing in disability supports make, when people with disabilities are able to contribute to the country fully in the way they want? How much do we then generate in economic activity, and what are the savings in governmental programs?

[Marg McAlister]

Thank you for your question.

In terms of the savings from an investment in home care, I have three comments to make. One is that really it's about shifting costs. It's balancing the costs and the level of care more appropriately. We're very cognizant of the limited resources, but the need to tip the balance towards the home and community is vital. It will put the funds in the area where care can be delivered safely, and where Canadians want to receive it. In so doing, it will improve the quality of life for the individuals who require that care. It will support the family caregivers, and it will make sure that we don't end up reverting just to the acute care system.

So often with inadequate support, families and individuals end up doing that dump in emergency, because if you put someone there, then at least they're probably going to get some level of care.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Has your organization done a study of the comparative costs of one day of home care as opposed to one day in acute care?

[Marg McAlister]

We don't have definitive numbers. There are estimates out there, so I wouldn't want to give you the wrong numbers, but it's obviously many times more to be in acute care. There are costs of around $800 versus shy of $100 for home care. That's the kind of ratio.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you very much.

May I have your comments, Ms. Eng?

[Susan Eng]

Thank you.

The studies we have looked at in terms of the amount of money that you would spend in home care versus in the acute care system vary, depending on the degree of disability or infirmity. The savings range from 40% to 75% of the cost of full-time care in acute care or long-term care. So it's a massive opportunity. If you don't care about the health care and other social outcomes, the fiscal responsibility there should dictate strong support for a national home care policy.