Fisheries Committee on April 14th, 2008

[Judge Pat Curran]

We are in the process of completing an assessment in our region to analyze the potential of positioning port facilities in our region to intercept some of the transatlantic pleasure craft, the yachting traffic. The preliminary market research we've seen suggests that, particularly on the eastern seaboard of the United States, there is an emerging concern with respect to insurance and overwintering of these sorts of vessels, to the point that insurers are refusing to carry vessels that are overwintering. The choices, really, are to take them to the Caribbean or alternatively to take them north. We've taken a look at that, and we believe there's a little niche market there for facilities in our region.

Now, when we're looking at marine facilities in our region, what are we looking at? We're looking at DFO facilities for the most part, unless you're talking about a privately owned wharf. I guess the concern I have with it is that there is an implication there, a positive implication and a negative one as well, I think.

If there's a revenue stream to be generated from it, I think that in turn can lead to more sustainable harbour authorities, giving them enough to maintain their operations and perhaps even build up a little bit of capital that they might in turn invest in some other developments. The downside of that, of course, is that you have to address the requirements of your primary users. As far as I know, those are--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Can I break in there for one second, Mr. Curran? I apologize, but I want to get to something else here.

On the issue of sustainability, you're saying that you have 45 boats, almost as many recreational boats as you do commercial boats. Yes, they are the primary users, and I understand that, but there seems to be something here that will aid you in coming up with the revenues that you're expected to cover off for some of these major costs, to the benefit of the primary users.

My question then is, how do you think the primary users would feel if they were to make accommodations, I guess, for recreational users on a larger scale?

I open that up to both of you.

[Dave Johnson]

I can step in on that one.

In Old Perlican we have an ad hoc committee that is currently pursuing developing our marina. We've had yachts down through the years always coming in. I estimate we've had probably 25 or 30 yachts. We've had them from down in the States, from everywhere. The major problem we've had is that because we don't have the room, they get entangled with the fishing boats. If you come in with your yacht and at two o'clock in the morning I come down to start up the engine because I'm going out, you don't want to hear that.

So this is why we are preparing an area that is going to be for the yachts. We've had requests from Holyrood, naturally, because we're in a position where, if you want to cross.... Let's say you leave Holyrood and are coming around and up to Trinity Bay. Well, if the wind comes down sou'west, you're not going to cross Trinity Bay; it would be very uncomfortable.

This is the other point: they want to be able to go to Old Perlican, where we have the marine service centre. John Efford every year comes there. He hauls up his boat and cleans the bottom and that.

That's what we're doing now. As you said, it will entertain more boats. We're thinking Americans, Europeans--who knows, right? But we have to have an area where they can have their own spot.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

So you need that degree of segregation, then, for everybody to be happy.

[Dave Johnson]

Well, no one in a yacht is going to come handy.... You don't want that. You're on your holidays, right?

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

One minute.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I have only one minute?

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

You have 57 seconds now.

Does anybody else want to comment on that one?

Mr. Parsons.

[Warren Parsons]

I don't know. I've found that the pleasure craft that have travelled to our area from outside and have come in and mixed with the fishing boats were amazed. They love to mix with the fishermen and ask them questions, see what they're doing and get some knowledge of what we're doing.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I've heard that before. But what about the other way around?

[Warren Parsons]

Well, in our area the fishermen have no problem mixing with them. We appreciate them.

A lot of the source of our funding is there too. We have 35 boats that are paying top dollar to tie up. It's really helping us. If we didn't have those boats in our facility right now, in the Admiral's Marina, we would have to be going after Gary back there for money to help us to run this harbour authority. But we are in the black as far as our expenses are concerned.

[Dave Johnson]

We have no problem interacting with the fishermen or the yachts. But the problem is, as I just said, if I'm tied up here and you come in and tie up alongside me, at one o'clock, when I'm going, that's it, I'm going. That's the problem. They want their own area.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Monsieur Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Most of you are asking for breakwaters to be installed. Many times during the course of our hearings, witnesses have stated that dredging had to be done around the small craft harbours. I wonder if a study has been conducted on this.

I'm going to ask you several questions in succession since my time is limited. You can make note of them and answer afterwards.

I don't know if you're also obliged to dredge around the wharf. If this is the case, won't installing breakwaters just postpone the problem?

In fact, in light of the depletion of the cod stocks, are you going to have to resort more to recreational boats in order to justify your presence and continue providing services to your fishermen?

With respect to the fees levied on recreational boats, is there competition between your ports or is there an agreement under which the same price is charged everywhere? This way, there's no competition, and you can draw more income from recreational boats.

Mr. Curran talked about insurance companies that refuse to ensure recreational boat owners or fishing boat owners that put away their boats for the winter. Since you are aware of why they hold this position, do you know if you would be able to change this opinion held by insurance companies; in other words, could you provide them with an incentive to insure boats that are berthed during the winter?

I, for one, represent the Arctic coast and your concerns interest me greatly. Sometimes I say jokingly that I am the future. On the northern shore of the Arctic coast, we see things progressing. We are soon going to be grappling with the same problems that you have and it is going to be interesting to see how you resolve them. You will be our model.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Who wants to try to answer?

Pat.

[Judge Pat Curran]

I'll speak to the last question.

It may be too preliminary for us to know just exactly what the details of the advantage of bringing these vessels to our region potentially might be. It might be just a little too early. I've seen a copy of the draft report to see what the competitive advantage of our region might be. It isn't finalized, so I don't know that I can answer your question on insurance and what that might represent for us.

[Dave Johnson]

I can touch on the dredging part and the breakwater. Old Perlican had its first breakwater in the mid-1960s. The problem we had was that we never had the deep water. As the fishing boats got bigger and needed more draft, we needed more water to come in. We had our first phase of dredging out the channel to make it deeper two years ago. We had divers out last year. There's no infilling, so it's all copacetic. Everything is going well. We're presently at the second phase. It's only been a couple of years, but really there's no infilling. The first breakwater has been there since 1965. An older gentleman I've been talking to says it looks the same to him as it did back then. Nothing more has filled in inside there. It's just that it wasn't deep enough in the beginning for the bigger boats of the present time.

[Warren Parsons]

I will try to answer. I don't know if I'll do right on this, but I'll try.

There was something about first priorities at the wharves. There is an understanding between pleasure craft and fishing boats in our harbour authority that the fishing boats are the ones that get the first priority. Fishermen always come first if they're using the facilities, off-loading the produce, or getting wharf space. If any wharf space is available after the fishermen have been accommodated, then pleasure craft will be accommodated at those facilities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Go ahead, Mr. Butt.

[Herb Butt]

It is just the same thing in Carbonear. As I said in my presentation, it's fishermen first and recreational boats second. As far as dredging is concerned, we never had to do any in Carbonear. It's fairly deep and satisfactory.

[Judge Pat Curran]

Regarding the question on competition among ports, and perhaps your question on the emerging need for recreational users following the cod moratorium, I think it would be important to note that the development of harbour authorities virtually coincided, I suppose in many cases, with the codfish moratorium, so it was happening at around the same time. I had an opportunity to work for the former member of Parliament in St. John's East in the late 1980s and early 1990s. I can remember being in Portugal Cove with people like Adrian Hynes and others at DFO, trying to convince those users at that facility of the merits of a harbour authority. At the time, they were quite skeptical, but I judge the whole process as having been more successful than you'd think.

But in terms of the competition to service these facilities, I'd like to think that if we believe that a market exists, we will accommodate the needs of the market. I would be inclined to think that there will be other attributes, beyond simply price and availability of facilities, that will determine where these vessels go. Part of our assessment has been to take a look at the other infrastructure that's in place within those communities in terms of services, facilities, and so on. I think that may ultimately determine where some of these vessels go, and hopefully avoid situations in which we have our various ports competing in some sort of race to the bottom on price. It's quite obvious that when you take a look at the ports in my region, there are some ports that have more services and facilities that would be of interest to this type of boater than others do. I think they'll find that they'll end up there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Curran.

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque.

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, gentlemen, for your presentation. How many port authorities are there in the Irish Loop area? Or perhaps I could extend it to the Avalon Peninsula. How many groups are there?

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

There are 68 in the riding of Avalon.