Fisheries Committee on April 14th, 2008

[Herb Butt]

I can give you something, not in fish landings but in boats. In Carbonear we went from 8 to 14. That is our forecast for 2008. That will be boats landing at our site. There were 8 in 2006 and there will be 14 in 2008. That's not a money value, but it's a big percentage increase in boats; therefore, that would relate to the landings.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I certainly appreciate our witnesses coming here today, and it is certainly a pleasure for me to be here in Newfoundland.

I have some questions. I want to iron this out, because clearly I'm missing something. In the last round of testimony we heard several witnesses; some of you who were here would have heard them say that they were keeping their berthage rates low in an effort to become competitive, because boats could go somewhere else and tie up. Yet in the testimony here I heard that wharf space is at a premium and we don't have enough room to tie up boats. On one hand, berthage is low because there is lots of competition, and on the other hand, we don't have enough harbour space for boats, recreational, commercial, or otherwise.

The Alberta sense that I have tells me that those two don't add up. So I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing that any of you would care to fill in for me. When I look at it, I pay upwards of $30 a night to park my 24-foot holiday trailer in a campground, and I see a $2 million boat sitting at the harbour paying a berthage fee of $400 a year.

I'm having some mathematical difficulties here, so could you guys help me with that?

[Dave Johnson]

You're missing it. You have a berthage fee of $400. You're not considering that the off-loading fee that is paid from the plant processor to the harbour authority is negotiated in the price that's paid for crab, fish, pelagics down the road.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

How much is that worth, Mr. Johnson?

[Dave Johnson]

I think it is a quarter of a cent or half a cent. I think St. John's charges half a cent per pound, so they get a half cent for every pound of fish that's landed. If they have 10 million pounds--my math is not that good, but what is that? Is it $100,000? If you have a 65-footer--as you said, a $2 million boat--and you have 300,000 pounds of crab to catch and half a million pounds of shrimp to catch, that's 800,000 times five cents. That's $4,000. That is $4,000 that is coming out of that boat for off-loading fees, which has been taken into account for a negotiated price.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

So that has to be added onto the berthage to get a more accurate--

[Dave Johnson]

No, it's not on it.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

I understand that, but you take that and you add it onto a berthage fee. That's money that's paid to the harbour authorities for off-loading, so that is your revenue stream. It's not just the berthage; it's also the off-loading.

[Dave Johnson]

The berthage fee wouldn't cut it. It would have to be too astronomical--

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

I agree with you. That's why I asked the question. You have to take into consideration not only the berthage fee but also the off-loading.

[Dave Johnson]

Yes.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Do I have that clear, then?

[Dave Johnson]

Yes.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

And that's what gives you your $70,000 or so. But the majority of that wouldn't be a berthage fee.

[Dave Johnson]

I'm a small boat fisherman--don't look just at the $2 million boat, there are more like me--and I have 13,500 pounds of crab to catch. Do the math on it. Let's say it's at $2 a pound. That's $27,000. My berthage fee is $100, plus HST. I just picked up my licence for crab, for groundfish, for this, that, and the other, and it's $621. Now I have to go and get my Seawatch. That's another $165. Then there's the percentage of....

So when you look at all of this--

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

The costs are significant.

[Dave Johnson]

Exactly.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

That's what keeps the berthage as low as possible.

[Dave Johnson]

When Old Perlican first formed the harbour authority, they came out and said, okay, we're going to charge the non-fishermen, we'll say, double. Well, I tell you, she never went to blows so hardly. Here's the fellow next to me going out to catch a few cod, and I'm paying...but you see, they don't understand that I'm paying an off-loading fee.

So that had to be scrapped right away or you wouldn't have gotten out through the door, it was that bad. It's been tried, right?

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

I'm going to allow two minutes per party for any questions you may want to ask. You decide how you're going to do that. We're almost up to the time, but we'll allow one round each of two minutes.

Mr. Matthews.

[Bill Matthews, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The question I was going to ask has pretty much been answered, I think, by Mr. Johnson in response to Mr. Calkins. I took notice that Mr. Parsons talked here--you did at your facility this morning as well--about keeping it low, almost in exchange for the unloading fees.

I guess we've confirmed that basically your revenue comes from the half cent or quarter cent a pound. You'd rather keep your berthing fee down so that the vessel unloads and you get the unloading fee. I think we've sort of established that as a result of Mr. Calkins' conversation with Mr. Johnson.

That was my understanding, and I just wanted you to confirm it, but I think that's been done.

[Warren Parsons]

Yes, we try to keep it down a bit. A fisherman will sometimes take his boat and go and fish out of St. John's, let's say. Well, we can't let that person have his boat tied on for $200 a year. If he has a 50-foot boat, he's paying $750 to $800 to us. If he decides to go to St. John's to off-load, well, he's going to have to pay $800 for his berthage fee.

The other fishermen, like me.... You see, I'm a fisherman, and if I land at my facility, I'll only pay $200 out of my pocket, but the company will probably end up paying $1,000 toward the harbour authority for me. This is how I generate my funds to the harbour authority.

[Bill Matthews, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

Thank you very much. I thought that was the answer.