Fisheries Committee on April 18th, 2008

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I'll be somewhat lenient, since we're in your neck of the woods.

Does someone else want to make a comment?

[Majella Émond, Prefect, Regional Municipality County of Haute-Gaspésie]

I believe that the Government of Canada should also be a good citizen. The municipalities of Gaspé have been investing enormous amounts of money in quality of life and enhancement of the region for a number of years now. We are well aware that the wharves are not receiving those same levels of investment from the federal government. Everyone here is well aware that the wharves are outdated, both ecologically and visually. Their poor condition is a risk for local residents, to the point that some municipalities are thinking of declaring them hazardous.

Is that what we need to do to make the government respond and invest more money?

Mr. Manning, you said earlier that the main issue was money. However, I do not believe that the government has put in the needed effort since its finances have been on sounder footing. It has let things go. As some people said earlier, the wharves are part of us, in a way. They are important to our communities. If the government wants to preserve them and ensure that the dynamic around them continues, if it wants to preserve that aspect, that relationship we have with the river and the estuary, it will have to invest funds. The current investment is not enough for Canada as a whole, particularly in our region. I hope that the outcome of your meetings will make it possible for the government to allocate more funding, because we know what it costs to repair the wharves.

Earlier, Mr. Mamelonet touched on the issue of discussions among a number of federal government departments. We know there is a problem there, because we have experienced it and heard about it on occasion. Fisheries and Oceans Canada as well as Transport Canada are involved with the wharves, and frequently do not speak to each other. That causes problems that are extremely difficult to solve whenever we want to move significant projects forward, like the Grande-Vallée project before you today, for instance. I don't know whether both parties are involved in that wharf, but there are areas where they are both involved, and it is difficult to have them sit down together and work on a wharf development project.

Obviously, I hope that these meetings result in a greater awareness of our problems on your part. We know—it is quite simple—that the main issue is money. We are well aware of that. But I believe the federal government now has a chance of having that money. We will not go before the courts, but we know all the spending that goes on within government, and we understand that some priorities might have to be shifted in order to promote wharf development in Canada, particularly in our area.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you.

As we've travelled--and I'm sure my colleagues who have been with me all week will agree--we have found a variety of concerns. Today we learned of some concerns here in Gaspé, and they were not concerns in other provinces we had visited. This tug-of-war between Transport Canada and DFO property we heard about here for the first time today. I'm sure there may be other instances in Atlantic Canada, but it's something that was brought to the table today.

We have concerns regarding some properties that are owned by small craft harbours directorate but on which there hasn't been a fish landed in six or seven or ten years, but still no community wants to give up their facility. Sometimes we may have to look at, as somebody mentioned earlier, the broader picture here, and driving up the highway ten minutes versus having a wharf that's falling down. We have to do that in relation to many other aspects of our society also.

There are a lot of different situations here. Hopefully through the process we're involved in now, we're hearing about them. We have not held any meeting at which we haven't learned about something new that needs to be addressed. So hopefully that will all be part of our report.

Mr. Stoffer, you have five minutes.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, very much for your presentations.

This is now my third trip to the Gaspé. The first one was with your member of Parliament, Mr. Bernier, and the other time was when, because we liked it so much, my family drove around the Gaspé. Even though I come from Nova Scotia, and we like to think that the Cape Breton Highlands is the number one drive in Canada, the drive around the Gaspésie is just as beautiful, I tell you. Now I'm on my third time.

In the years that I've been a member of Parliament, I've always found that government is always looking for partners to do business with, to divest certain facilities to, either provincial governments or regional governments or private interests.

I must say, Mr. Minville and Mr. Scantland, your presentations here really help us a lot. In fact, you do a lot of our work right here by doing this.

If I were in the federal government, this is something I would look at very positively. This is something our committee will take back, and we will encourage the government--not just DFO but other departments--to look at something like this, which actually, in the end, will save taxpayers money and develop the economy in this regard.

If I were a fisherman in the Gaspé area, I'd be very proud of my municipal representation here today. This is the first time I've seen this many councillors and mayors and officials here. It obviously is a very, very important issue for you, so congratulations on that, and keep up the great work.

How many fishermen and their families are we talking about when it comes to small craft harbours in this particular region? Do you have a ballpark figure?

[Georges Mamelonet]

I would say we have about 20 to 22 lobster fishermen in small craft harbours, in every harbour, but it can be something like....

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

How many altogether?

[Georges Mamelonet]

In the whole community I would say there are about 300 lobster fishermen.

[Gilbert Scantland]

More than that.

[Georges Mamelonet]

Just lobster?

[Gilbert Scantland]

Yes. In all of the region we have 1,080 permits, but it's not the same thing with fishermen--donc, 600 ou 700 pêcheurs, probablement.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

As you know, in Atlantic Canada and parts of Quebec, because of some aspects of the economy, a lot of our young people move out to central or western Canada for employment. We heard earlier from the lady right behind you and in other presentations that if we had the facilities up to date, if they were more modern, if we showed that the federal government--and not just this one but other governments as well--could be more proactive in enhancing these facilities, then young people might see that there is a future here and might decide to stay and raise their families here.

As you know, one of the difficulties we have, if you read the Montreal Gazette, or Le Soleil, or the Globe and Mail, or the National Post, is that you rarely ever read about a small craft harbour, and that's one of our challenges. We have to get this issue, along with all the other issues facing Canadians, on the front page. I can assure you we will do the very best we can.

If you could just comment on what this means in order to keep and enhance the economic opportunities for young people so that they can stay in these rural communities...

[Gilbert Scantland]

We have been trying to diversify our economy for some years. We have to some extent succeeded, because of the wind energy that is being developed in our region. Among young people aged 24 to 35, migration to our region is positive—young people are coming back to settle in the region, and starting families there. Those young people are involved in their communities and work. We have seen the economy improve.

I would like to take this opportunity to point something out. The fact that there is such a regional consensus regarding the problems that small craft harbours are having shows that we have taken this to the grassroots level. This is a community problem, not just a fishery problem, a tourism problem or a cultural problem. It is a community problem, and the federal government should handle it as such.

In cooperating with recreational harbour associations to improve fishing and recreational harbour conditions, harbour authorities have made it possible for the community to act together, to demonstrate solidarity. Responsibility is not just being shifted to Fisheries and Oceans, but also to Transport Canada, Canadian Heritage, Tourism Canada, and Agriculture and Agri-Food, because they are also involved in areas associated with sea farming. The government has to look at the situation from all points of view, not solely from the point of view of Fisheries and Oceans.

[Georges Mamelonet]

Regarding your question, Mr. Stoffer, about what we could do and what would be the investment to bring the wharves back to a good state, in the region, actually, there have been a lot of studies done, for example, on seaweed, sea urchins, and species that were not fished before. In the very near future, these species will need a lot of infrastructure to be able to fish them, to collect them, and to treat them.

That is part of the answer to your question.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Would anyone else like to add something to that before we move on from Mr. Stoffer?

[Majella Émond]

I would like to share an experience with you that I had when I was mayor of Mont-Saint-Pierre. It is a village that relied on tourism where at one point in time, the sea completely destroyed the wharf. It was a private wharf, that did not belong to the government. We had to find the means to have it removed. This happened four or five years ago, and I can tell you that we are still feeling nostalgic about it today. On top of that, we lost many of the tourists who came to us in June and early July. Wharves are therefore extremely important. In my opinion, every necessary effort must be made to preserve the ones that are still there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you.

Mr. Harvey.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

First of all, thank you very much for being here today. It is greatly appreciated. Mr. Stoffer was mentioning earlier on that he was happy to see so many mayors at the same time. I can tell you that every time I come here to make an announcement on behalf of the government, there are always this many mayors. There is a great deal of participation. People in these parts are very proud of their region, and rightly so, because wherever you go in Canada, the Gaspé Peninsula is mentioned regularly.

Mr. Minville, I would first of all like to congratulate you on your presentation. It was very professional, and it could serve as a model not only here in the Gaspé, but anywhere in Canada. You said that harbours are part of our culture, of our heritage. It is important to showcase that heritage.

My colleagues said earlier on, as did Mr. Scantland, that many men and women are involved. Mr. Cannon has just announced $33 billion in funding for various Building Canada projects, projects somewhat like yours. We want to showcase these things. There are $33 billion and we are waiting to tie that to the Province of Quebec so that you will soon be able to participate in the program. There's also $10 million for divestiture of wharves. This amount increased from $1.5 million to $11.5 million. We are aware of this and sensitive to it. You know that you need this. This budget is almost 11 times more than what it used to be. There was a 30% increase in funding for wharf repairs, that is to say an increase that is 10 times that of the cost of living.

We therefore have that sensitivity. I will not point to the previous government, but there has been a certain negligence. Budgets for wharf maintenance were reduced, and what we are seeing here today is somewhat the result of that.

Can we fix the situation immediately and catch up on 10 years of cutbacks? I do not think so. We increased the budgets, things have been done...

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Mr. Stoffer, on a point of order.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Harvey, with great respect to you and this region, sir, we're not here to compare previous governments.

I'm with the NDP. The last thing I need to hear is what the Liberals did or what the Conservatives failed to do or what they're not doing. We're here to listen to this testimony and to work cooperatively in the very best way we can.

That's twice now I've heard you say that, and I ask you, with great respect to our witnesses.... They don't need a history lesson on what was done or what wasn't done. I'm sure my Liberal colleagues could give you a lesson on the huge deficit they faced, but we don't need to go there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

If I could, please, there is no point of order.

We have conducted a week of hearings. I would rather that we get to the situation we're here in Gaspé to discuss today. We can have that discussion in the House of Commons. I'd appreciate that.

Mr. Harvey.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I must inform my friends that the issue is knowing what is at their disposal in order to move things forward and to understand what the situation is. They do not have complete information, of course. As I said—I did not name anyone—there are supplementary budgets, things are coming along for them, that was my objective. I hope that you are not upset by our sensitivity with regard to what my friends here today are explaining to us and getting us to understand.

It is an issue of priorities. Fisheries and Oceans Canada is investing almost a billion dollars. Whether it is an issue of protecting the resource, or research and development on fish farming or aquaculture, of licence buy-backs, of improvements or maintenance of wharves, what is your priority? What should we make a priority?

As you know, we are not walking around with Monopoly money in our pockets. We are trying to say that we have a budget. How should we implement that budget? What is your priority? It is not up to us to decide, it is up to you. What should we truly be concentrating on?

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Mr. Émond.