Evidence of meeting #29 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wharves.
3:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
Thank you, Mr. Dufresne. Thank you, Mr. Stoffer.
Mr. Harvey, the floor is yours, sir.
3:25 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
I'd like to start by thanking you for being here today. Like Anita, I have attended these meetings on several occasions. I have been in the region frequently over the last few months, in Pointe-au-Renard and here in Gaspé.
The issue we are addressing today is similar to several others. I see that my Liberal friends and colleagues are now interested in wharves and small harbours. It is not unlike the environment. They were supposed to reduce CO2 emissions by 6%, yet there was a 33% increase. When it comes to immigration, there are now 500,000 undocumented immigrants in Canada and a waiting list which has gone from 50,000 to over 900,000 names. As a result of budget cutbacks, we now find ourselves with poorly maintained wharves. There is now a great deal of catching up to do. A 30% budget increase was recently earmarked. We are aware of the type of challenge involved here, but we must also give things time so we may see progress.
I also understand how important the work of volunteers is. We have often forgotten to say thank you. I did so last time I came to make an announcement. We made the effort, on behalf of the Prime Minister, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and the Minister of Transport, to thank you for your work and your involvement within your community. We told you that your work was appreciated and that it mattered to us.
Mr. Dufresne, you said that there was a lack of imagination, what would you do under the circumstances? You referred to a big red button, but what is it connected to?
3:25 p.m.
Administration portuaire de Rivière-au-Renard
It's quite simple, someone higher up in government, a minister or the Prime Minister, could tell the people from Fisheries and Oceans and Transport Canada to come to an agreement and give us some space. The wharves are practically not being used. It is a real joke. From time-to-time someone will come to implement a philosophy and then turn around and go home. We end up being stuck with that. Two or three years ago we were told that red flags were for everyone, but the reality is otherwise.
3:25 p.m.
Administration portuaire de Rivière-au-Renard
It is red for Fisheries and Oceans Canada and for Transport Canada. As far as I'm concerned, it should be for everyone. A wharf is a red flag. I am convinced all it would take would be to force them to sit down around a table and define the needs. We're talking about senior people, but on our side, we hold discussions with regular people. On the Pointe-au-Renard wharves, we had to use a great deal of internal creativity. We came up with plans.
Moreover, we noticed that the harbour authority, DFO officials and PWGSC officials had the tools they needed to sell the idea to politicians, and it worked very well.
If you want to work on wharf-related projects throughout Quebec, you have no other choice that is the only way to go. Indeed, we cannot ask ministers to repair our wharves; it is as though they're operating in a vacuum. Even if we were to refer everything to the wharf manager, we know that he won't do the job either. When it comes to the money for the plans and specifications, he will say that he doesn't have it because PWGSC no longer dares to pay; it's too expensive.
Now at the DFO, they refer to regional, local and provincial managers, not to engineers and technicians. In my opinion that is also one of the buttons we should be pushing. If we want to rebuild, we need to know what we're going to be rebuilding and what state the facilities are in.
It's true: I inspected the La Malbaie wharf eight years ago. A small part of the spur wharf was demolished and that wharf was expected to last four years at most.
3:30 p.m.
Administration portuaire de Rivière-au-Renard
Yes, it was really the limit. That is what happens.
The people I was working for are no longer there, nor are the technicians who developed the projects. Who else talks about rebuilding wharves except a politician who tries to get...? He will do up a plan in a hurry. Will he carry it out?
There were promises made about a reconstruction project at La Malbaie last year or the year before, but it is still... The dynamic is not the same as before.
When the harbour authorities were set up, people thought that all the work would take place there and that the budgets would be taken back from Public Works and Government Services Canada, with whom the projects would be co-managed. That is exactly what happened.
3:30 p.m.
Administration portuaire de Rivière-au-Renard
It did happen that way: the budgets were returned and given to other people to do the management in-house. We did not receive the money; we are likely birds that peck at the seeds on the ground under the bird feeder.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
Could the plan that you prepared for Rivière-au-Renard be copied and pasted, if I can put it that way? Could it be used in other places?
3:30 p.m.
Administration portuaire de Rivière-au-Renard
I met with Raynald about a month or a month and a half ago. The local harbour authority obviously needs to be aware of the resources it has and what it could do with them. That way, it would have something to propose.
Right now there is nothing, the manager does not have anything either, and there are no longer any services at the higher levels to do the work. All people expect from politicians is for them to put out fires and do crisis management. That kind of sums up what is happening.
As I said, I really think that everyone involved, not just those at the lowest levels, should do a proper assessment of the wharves, one after another, in order to figure out what to do. Then it would be a matter of developing a budget and a work schedule; it could be done for a number of wharves. That way, the needs are identified.
We were told there had to be rationalization because the fishing industry was dying. Fortunately, we didn't go along with that, since there are nearly twice as many boats at Rivière-au-Renard than there were four or five years ago. We have 145 boats in the spring, which is a huge number. We would have been in a worse situation than elsewhere.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
Mr. Morissette, I know that we are here mainly to talk about wharves, but I would like to hear a little bit from you about aquaculture. If I understand correctly, an increase of 15% has been mentioned, as well as the fact that this is a particularly good location because of the bay that provides a certain amount of protection.
Are there things that the federal government could do to help you develop this more quickly?
3:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Regroupement des mariculteurs du Québec
On the economic side, of course, there is the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec. There is a little work to be done to tie things down there.
When we compare the financial services of our neighbours in the Maritimes with what we have, we see the differences. The marine aspect, fisheries and aquaculture play a much bigger role economically there than in Quebec. Economic Development Canada, which we deal with, does not always listen to us. It is more and more difficult to get the financing we need for our businesses.
In the area of research and development, Fisheries and Oceans' Institut Maurice-Lamontagne no longer has an aquaculture mandate. There is work to be done in that area too, of course. I would say that most of the mariculture development is being undertaken at the provincial level. Federal assistance is increasingly being sought as well; people would like to see greater involvement at that level.
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
I'm referring to licences, authorizations, the role of the facilitator in the development of this industry. Are there things that limit your development currently?
3:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Regroupement des mariculteurs du Québec
I am currently in the process of applying for a site. I submitted an application over a year ago, and the process is still not completed.
3:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Regroupement des mariculteurs du Québec
To the two levels of government, but it is especially at the federal level that things are bogged down. It is especially due to the fact that we are joint users of the public resource, that is, there are fishers, aquaculturists, etc. Therefore, links must be established between the different users of the public system.
One of the objectives of the Regroupement des mariculteurs du Québec was to reduce wait times to four months for obtaining a licence. That is what we are targeting for 2011. We would like it to take four months for developer to obtain a site. However, as I mentioned, I applied over a year ago. So in fact I have been waiting 16 months to obtain a licence. Obviously, that does not create a—
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
I understand. That's why I asked you that question. I want to be aware of the situation.
3:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
Thank you, Mr. Harvey.
We have allocated enough time to do a second round. Each member would get four minutes. Is that fine with everybody? We need to stick to our times.
Mr. Matthews.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Matthews Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you to our witnesses for coming. It's a real pleasure to be here in Gaspé, in the riding of Mr. Blais, with my colleagues who started this trip in Newfoundland and Labrador on Monday. This is our fifth province.
Our committee is a non-partisan committee. We work very well together. We have been a constructive committee for the eleven years that I've been a member of it. It's not about Liberals and Conservatives, about who cut the budget and who made promises. It's about you people, about your needs and desires. We want to do a report that hopefully will have some impact to help resolve your situations.
I say that very sincerely, because this committee has worked very well together. It's the first time in my time on the committee that I've heard this kind of talk, especially by someone who just showed up this afternoon.
Having said that, I want to talk to you, Mr. Morissette, and ask you a question about your situation with aquaculture. I have a region in my riding that's somewhat like yours. We have a growing industry with tremendous potential, and with infrastructure needs like yours.
Just so I understand this, are the Transport Canada and Department of Fisheries and Oceans wharves closely located? You say you use the Transport Canada wharf now. They are reluctant to let you use it but they accommodate you. Is it close by the other fishing activities or is it off somewhere far away?
3:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Regroupement des mariculteurs du Québec
In both cases, in Carleton and in Gaspé, the wharves are side by side. The Fisheries and Oceans Canada wharf in Carleton is right beside the Transport Canada wharf. Here, in Gaspé, they were also side by side. With the streamlining of small craft harbours done by Fisheries and Oceans Canada, these wharves were deemed non-essential because there was not a great deal of fishing activity. Aquaculture is a new activity. It should be pointed out that the two main centres on the Gaspé Peninsula are Gaspé and Carleton, both places where fishing activities have been abandoned.
What we are saying is that we are legitimate users, just like the fishers. The development of aquaculture is important for DFO, and so Gaspé and Carleton must be identified as being important centres for the development of aquaculture. We need infrastructure just like other major fishing centres do.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Matthews Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
The department is on record as saying that aquaculture is becoming more and more important. I think they are sincere about trying to find solutions. I guess my question was that since the Transport Canada wharf and the fisheries department wharf are both federal, then why can't two federal government departments somehow work out a solution?
Are there other activities on the Transport Canada wharf--I know I'm going to run out of time here--that would conflict with your activities? And is it in good shape, the wharf? Why couldn't they, as two federal government departments, work out a solution? I just wonder why they can't work something out.
That happened in my riding. DFO took over a Transport Canada wharf that was in good shape. If that hadn't happened, I would have had to go to DFO to try to find sufficient money to construct a comparable wharf for the fisheries department . So it makes all the sense to work together.
3:40 p.m.
Vice-President, Regroupement des mariculteurs du Québec
In Carleton, I don't understand why there is no agreement, because there is no other activity on that wharf. Transport Canada wanted to transfer the wharf to the municipality, but it did not do so. In Gaspé, there will be other activities, but as Jacques mentioned earlier, we don't really know what they are. Currently, we do have a place, but there is no reason why there should not be an agreement. I cannot understand it.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
Thank you, Mr. Morissette.
Would you like to make a comment, Mr. Dufresne?