Fisheries Committee on May 26th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I call the meeting to order. I want to welcome everybody here.

For those who may not be aware, we are the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans of the House of Commons. We are in the process, over the past number of months, of travelling and meeting with people across the country to study the small craft harbours program of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. Our purpose is to gain as much feedback as we can from people who use the facilities, so we can hopefully enhance the program not only in the financial aspect but indeed in any and all ways, knowing full well that many of the people involved with the harbour authorities throughout Canada are volunteers.

We did an east coast trip about a month ago. We're delighted to be in Richmond today. We head up to Port Hardy, I believe, tonight and will spend a couple more days here in your beautiful province. I hail from Newfoundland and Labrador, so I'm a long way from home. We have interpreters here with us who will be translating our dialect. So I will ask our witnesses to keep an eye out for that, because we have a couple of people here we have to have interpretation for.

As I said, coming from Newfoundland, sometimes I have to carry my own interpreter, but my say here today will be very limited. Each of the committees of the House of Commons has a job to do their work without their staff and people who surround them, such as our analyst here, François, our interpreters, our technicians, our people back here. We are also delighted to have our clerk, who happens to be from British Columbia and who happens to have her mom and her two brothers in the audience today. Her mom, Margaret, and Gus and Mac, who are twin brothers, have joined us. We could have a couple of budding politicians here in the audience maybe.

We're delighted to be here today. Our process is that we open up the floor to have opening presentations from our guests and then we have a question and answer period where we go around. Just to give you an idea, the committee has representation from the four parties in the House of Commons: the Conservative Party, Liberal Party, Bloc, and we bring along this guy down here from the NDP, just for moral support every now and again. We have a very good working relationship, I must say, among our committee members. Most of us represent areas that have large fishing areas, and the small craft harbours program is a very important part of our work.

With that, I would like to ask Ms. Elizabeth McLeod, from the Harbour Authority Association of British Columbia, to give her opening remarks.

Maybe before we start we will ask each of you to introduce yourselves and the organizations you represent, for the record, and then we will go back to Ms. McLeod for opening remarks.

Thank you very much.

[Elizabeth McLeod, President, Harbour Authority Association of British Columbia]

My name is Elizabeth McLeod. I am the president of the Harbour Authority Association of B.C. and I manage the Comox Valley Harbour Authority. In addition to that, I also sit on the PRHAAC and the NHAAC.

[Art Childs, Vice-President, Harbour Authority Association of British Columbia]

Good afternoon. My name is Art Childs. I am the vice-president of the Harbour Authority Association of B.C., harbour manager at False Creek Harbour Authority, and also a director of the Pacific Coast Congress of Harbormasters and Port Managers.

[Ben Mabberley, Director, Whaler Bay Harbour Authority, Pacific Regional Harbour Authority Advisory Committee]

I'm Ben Mabberley, a commercial salmon and herring fisherman. I'm president of the Whaler Bay Harbour Authority and I'm here on behalf of the Pacific Regional Harbour Authority Advisory Committee. I'm also the vice-chair of the national advisory committee.

[Linda Franz, Harbour Manager, Campbell River Harbour Authority, Pacific Regional Harbour Authority Advisory Committee]

Good afternoon. My name is Linda Franz. I'm from Campbell River, where I manage one of your harbour authorities. I've been there since 1984. I plan to retire this year, but I'll always keep my finger in the harbour authority program. Thank you.

[Lutz Budde, Director, Oona River Community Association, Pacific Regional Harbour Authority Advisory Committee]

My name is Lutz Budde. I'm from Oona River, British Columbia. I'm the director of the Oona River Harbour Authority and I'm a member of PRHAAC.

[Elizabeth McLeod]

On behalf of the Harbour Authority Association, I would like to welcome you gentlemen to British Columbia. I commend you for your willingness to visit every region of Canada. And although there are huge regional differences, I think you're going to find while you're here that our communities and volunteers share a common commitment to the harbour authority program with the rest of Canada.

Throughout the history of B.C., our red-railed harbours have provided a safe haven for the working vessels that ply our coastal waters. These harbours are the infrastructure of our fishing industry, and many of our northern communities are still reliant on these harbours as a vital link in their transportation network. Our harbours are also part of the economic mainstay of many of our communities.

In B.C., we have 76 core harbours coast-wise, managed by 54 harbour authorities. Our harbours tend to be larger than those in other regions and more consolidated, the average harbour being between 100 and 200 vessels. Due to the capacity of the larger harbours, we have the ability to generate quite a lot of revenue because many of our harbours are operating with a volunteer board but professional staff. Having a permanent staff gives many of our B.C. harbours an increased ability to plan and take advantage of the economic funding opportunities as they become available in the west.

The Harbour Authority Association of B.C. is a provincially incorporated not-for-profit society. It's important to note that the HAABC is a grassroots organization developed by our harbours in 1997 in response to the needs of the harbours. Although we work very closely with small craft harbours directorate in the Pacific region, we're not a creature of the government. Of the 54 harbours in B.C., 49 are members of this organization. Our major role is to establish effective communication among harbour authorities, foster a good working relationship, exchange information, and network. The HAABC has split the province into six distinct areas, and our volunteer directors are elected to the board by each area.

Each year, the HAABC organizes an annual three-day conference to provide information and educational workshops and networking opportunities for our members as well as feedback to the board of directors. We have one quarter-time staff member to assist in our conference planning, and because of this, our organization relies heavily on our board of directors to provide hands-on administration and management services for this organization. This severely limits our ability to address the growing needs of our membership. There is an identified need to provide training, education, mentoring, and support for many of the smaller remote and less-developed facilities far beyond what we can achieve at our annual conference. Without additional resources, this will be extremely difficult for us to provide.

We've taken on some initiatives over the last few years. The first one, and very important to our harbours, was we have begun to develop a toolbox of standard documents for use in our harbours. We've completed a standard berthage licence agreement to ensure each harbour has a legally vetted document that will assist in the collection of fees and clearly lay out the terms and conditions of berthage in our harbours for our users. Through small craft harbours directorate, we intend to share this document with all the other regions in Canada.

Derelict and abandoned vessels continue to plague the harbours in B.C. This problem has resulted from the DFO licence buyback programs that have littered the coast with former working vessels that now have no purpose. Without work, they sit tied to the dock with little or no maintenance in many of our working harbours. In many cases, the owners of these vessels have simply walked away, leaving the harbours holding the bag on what is becoming an enormous and costly problem. With buyback under way purchasing licences and not vessels, we expect this problem to continue to escalate. In response to a request from our membership, the HAABC, in conjunction with small craft harbours Pacific region, is in the process of forming a subcommittee to develop terms of reference to investigate the magnitude of this problem and explore options for dealing with the issue.

In addition to this, my colleague Art Childs has been working with the Pacific Coast Congress, as have Hiltje Binner, who is the harbour manager for Port McNeill, and Linda Franz, in developing educational curriculum.

The PCC has partnered with the University of Alaska Southeast in developing a distance learning program for harbours and marina personnel, focusing on common areas: structural and construction, maintenance and repair, environmental business practices, and customer service.

Some of the course development work is being done jointly with the HABC members, and the long-term goal will see a stronger partnership in the area of training and professional development. This online program will enable many of our harbours to access appropriate training for staff without the added costs of travel and accommodation. We're hoping to see this in the near future, because like everything else, we're now suffering from attrition, as more and more of us reach retirement age.

I'm going to touch on some of the common issues that are now being experienced by all of our harbours in B.C., the first and foremost in my mind being the Fishing and Recreational Harbours Act and its regulations, which govern our harbours. These were designed many years ago to enable the federal government to manage the harbours. No changes or updates occurred when the harbour authorities came into being, and the legislation does not facilitate or acknowledge our role in the management of these harbours. While we were required by our lease agreements to abide by all applicable government acts and regulations, we do not have the ability to enforce these regulations on our users.

We would urge DFO to review the act and regulations, as well as the standard harbour authority lease agreements, with a view to making the necessary changes to facilitate good governance in our harbours.

Increasingly, B.C. harbours are taking on a more innovative approach to increasing our capacity to recapitalize and improve our harbours. We are constantly seeking funding from other sources as well as looking for development opportunities within our harbour lands to improve our own finances.

We would like to see our partnership with small craft harbours directorate enhanced to allow strategies that will enable us to continue with the next logical steps in our creative approach to meeting the needs of our harbours.

In order for our B.C. harbours to continue to grow, we require supportive regulations to enable us to recapitalize investments, buy land, and increase services. Obtaining matching funds from outside sources is dependent on an increased flexibility in small craft harbours funding guidelines.

Finally, our harbour authorities need to work with small craft harbours directorate to become an integral part of the planning for our harbours and maximize all of our available resources. There's an ever-increasing demand on our facilities, resulting in conflict for waterfront resources evident in our province. It is important to note that the majority of our harbours are full and require increased capacity and expansion to meet the growing needs of B.C.

The Pacific coast infrastructure is also aging. While small craft harbours directorate and Pacific Region have been doing an excellent job of maintaining our assets with the limited funds available, it's evident that it's time to recapitalize our harbours. Many of the structures in our harbours are in excess of 60 years old and have reached the end of their lifespans and no longer can be maintained. They require replacements.

Adding to this problem is changing weather patterns and the increasing severity of coastal storms. These storms are resulting in wind, wave, debris, and flood damage to our facilities, which jeopardizes the safety of our vessels and our harbour users. Many of the stop-gap measures used in the past in many of our harbours, such as floating breakwaters, are no longer adequate to protect our harbour infrastructure and need to be replaced with permanent rock structures.

Dredging, as I'm sure you've heard everywhere you've come in B.C., is a major operational issue in most of our Pacific coast harbours, especially those on the Fraser River. Our larger-draft fishing vessels can only access our harbours at high tide and are unable to move while in berth, which creates a serious safety concern in our harbours. In the case of a fire at low tide, we would be unable to move these larger vessels away from the dock, resulting in disaster for our vessels and facilities.

Dredging is not just a problem within our water lots. Since Transport Canada ceased their dredging program the channels leading into our harbours are silting in, resulting in a major access problem that we do not have the jurisdiction or the funding to address. We feel this problem is not unique to the west coast, and we're hoping to see a national strategy put in place to address these dredging issues. It would be really nice to see one arm of the government take over the management of dredging, as Transport Canada did in the past.

Our Pacific coast harbours are also dependent on the efforts of our volunteers, and they're supported in that endeavour by our Pacific region small craft harbour staff. At a time when all of our harbours are suffering from volunteer fatigue, we found that our staff support at the small craft harbours level is stretched to the limit due to attrition, leaves, and the functional review. It's a credit to the dedication and commitment of Pacific region staff that they've managed to maintain a professional level of support to our harbours throughout this period. There's an urgent need to increase small craft harbours support to maintain and enhance the interest and capacity of harbour authority volunteers and staff if we're to continue to move forward.

Another niggley little problem that we face on a daily basis is access to information on vessel ownership. If a vessel is not listed in the ships registry, we are unable to find out the ownership of that vessel without an access to information request, even in an emergency situation, and this can have some serious consequences as well.

Our commercial fishing harbours are necessary for the survival of the fishing industry in B.C. Commercial fishing remains a viable and major economic contributor to our west coast economy. We require flexibility to change with the needs of our industry. When major changes are being planned in different areas of DFO, such as licensing that will affect the usage of our harbours, we need to be informed and consulted. What we're seeing now with the onset of quota fisheries is that an increasing number of vessels are sitting at the dock just to hold the licence and the quota, and they're not moving out during the fishing seasons as they were in the past. Also, they're creating a problem that I would call a licensed derelict, where there's not the maintenance going into these vessels that there used to be when they were out fishing.

In closing, I would like to thank you for your interest in our organization and in our harbours in B.C. We require your continued support to increase the viability of our Pacific coast commercial fishing harbours.

Thank you very much for coming out here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Ms. McLeod.

I believe our next speaker will be Mr. Mabberley.

[Ben Mabberley]

Good afternoon, everybody. On behalf of the Pacific Regional Harbour Authority Advisory Committee, I would like to welcome the members of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans to the west coast.

When I was asked to be here today, I sat down to think about the message I hoped to convey to you. You've heard from Liz McLeod about the Harbour Authority Association of B.C. and the great work they do on behalf of all HAs in the Pacific region. I'm sure that on the rest of your trip you will see and hear of many successes and challenges from the HAs you visit. The main point to remember is that all of these organizations are run by volunteers, who are the backbone of all harbour authorities across Canada.

We have 54 harbour authorities in the Pacific region, managing 76 fishing harbours. While some of the HAs are able to have full-time paid staff, most can only afford part-time staff to assist with fee collection and secretarial duties. The rest of the work is done by volunteers. It is estimated that the 54 HAs spend an estimated 50,000 volunteer hours annually on harbour authority operations.

I would like to go over a few of the initiatives that the Pacific advisers, along with the regional advisers and small craft harbours, have been working on to assist the HAs in becoming viable and self-sufficient. The first is the formation of the Harbour Authority Corporation.

Together with our regional partners, and after many years of struggling with the issue of directors and officers' insurance and bodily insurance, we formed the Harbour Authority Corporation. This corporation, run by volunteers, makes available at a cost of $100 per year both types of insurance to all HAs across Canada. As of today, 414 of the 579 harbour authorities in Canada belong to this corporation. With D&O costs of approximately $2,000 to $4,000 a year per harbour authority, the savings to the HAs are substantial. Now those funds are available to be reinvested in their facilities.

The Gislason report states that for every dollar going into harbours, there is an estimated $50 in associated spinoff benefits. The estimated savings of the program are $1.1 million, with a spinoff benefit of $55 million, or approximately $94,000 per HA community.

The advisers are also working with small craft harbours on inspection and maintenance manuals. These will allow HAs to do more of the day-to-day inspection and repairs. HAs have requested an increased contract signing authority, from $40,000 to $200,000. We are hoping that more harbours will be able to take on more of the smaller projects that HAs are expressing a desire to be involved with. This will ease our reliance on the Department of Public Works to get projects completed.

As you may be aware, we are also working on a new long-term vision for small craft harbours. While it's still in draft form, the vision is:

The existence of a critical, affordable, national network of safe and accessible harbours, in good working condition, that meets the principal need of the commercial fishing industry, while supporting the broader interests of coastal communities and Canada's national interest. The harbour will be fully operated, managed and maintained by viable, professional and self-sufficient harbour authorities representing the interests of users and communities.

This vision clearly indicates the connection between our fishermen, our harbour authorities, and our coastal communities. It brings forward the desire of all of those involved to see harbour authorities evolve toward self-sufficient community-based organizations.

The point I'm trying to make is that as volunteers managing federal assets, we are working hard to provide our fishermen and our communities with safe and accessible harbours, but we can't do this alone. We need an effective partner for small craft harbours, one that is able to provide good programs and funding when necessary to allow us to provide these services and also to respond to the changes that are occurring in our fisheries and our environment.

The funding for small craft harbours has not significantly increased for eight years. In fiscal year 2000-2001, the actual spending budget for small craft harbours was $90 million. The budget for 2008-2009 is $91.5 million. Considering inflation and the rising costs of labour and construction, this could and should be considered a decrease in funding.

The fisheries committee in its last report highlighted the fact that an estimated $400 million is needed just to bring the core harbours up to an acceptable condition. This shortfall has been put on the backs of harbour authorities, and this is unacceptable. We need a commitment from the federal government for stable, long-term funding that takes into account all of the challenges that harbour authorities deal with daily.

I believe, based on my discussions with HAs in the Pacific region and across the country, that it is the goal of most of the HAs to become viable, professional, and self-sufficient so that decisions can be made that are in the best interests of not only the fishermen but also our communities that rely so heavily on these facilities.

We understand the challenges about revenue generation. It's not just about fee collection; it's about working together to solve financial issues such as insurance and maintenance. There will continue to be challenges, and we look forward to working with small craft harbours' excellent staff to solve them.

Thank you again for the opportunity to be here today, and I hope you have a nice day on the west coast.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Mabberley and witnesses.

Mr. Byrne.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.

I was very keen to listen to what I thought was a very well articulated, very understanding knowledge base of the small craft harbour program, not only from what was clearly a ground point of view, but also from an administrative point of view within the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Mr. Mabberley, I'm going to direct my question to you, since you specifically brought up the matter of funding. You quite rightfully, in my opinion, pointed out that there has indeed been an overall funding cut within the program, given the costs of inflation. Construction inflation in particular is outpacing the consumer price index by about 7% per year, so you've come to the conclusion that we really haven't kept pace.

Collectively you represent all the harbour authorities of B.C., but you and Elizabeth in particular are chief spokespersons of that. I want to ask you, Ben, and then probably move to Elizabeth to respond as well. With that funding cut, have you noticed a substantial rust-out or decrease in the capitalization of harbours within the area? As well, with such scarce dollars, is there competition within the harbour authority family within British Columbia? Is there a certain amount of tension that gets created as you compete for capital projects for funding?

Specifically, you all had mentioned the fact that you have a very positive working relationship with the small craft harbours officials. Small craft harbours officials represent teams of technicians and engineers and people who are well aware of the program. They produce lists each and every year to forward to Ottawa for funding. Would you be very upset if you were under the understanding that local officials had developed plans for capital projects only to have those projects cut short at Ottawa, whether the funding was shifted around or diverted to other sources? Do you really think that there should be a rules base on which the funding is put in place, that local priorities are put in place, and that within the B.C. family of harbour authorities funding should be decided within B.C. and not elsewhere?

I think you got the overall tone of my questions. There are a few things in there, Ben and Elizabeth, that you may want to address, but could you just expand on some of the points you raised and sort of integrate what I just had to say?

[Ben Mabberley]

I think the way I would come at that is to say that one thing we're good at, both in B.C. and as fishermen, is being very adaptable. We realize the funding challenges now. If you look at the HAABC and the advisory groups, we've gotten together as volunteers to address those funding issues.

Is there competition in B.C. among projects? I don't see it. As one of the advisers, I don't see it. There's a common agreement that we're underfunded. I'm sitting here as one of the regional advisers, and our job is to find solutions to those problems, and that's what we've attempted to do. When you look at the harbour authority corporation that was formed, that's a direct solution to a problem. If you look at any harbour that's having to put out $2,000 to $4,000 a year on insurance, that money is now reinvested into the harbour. So from my point of view, I look more at solving the problems rather than trying to worry so much about what Ottawa and the regions are doing among themselves.

Absolutely, if my harbour has a project that is slated to go ahead, and it takes years to complete because funds keep getting diverted, it's disappointing. That's the same with every harbour, and you hear about that from everybody. But is there anything I can do about it? Probably not.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Is there anything you'd recommend as a solution?

[Ben Mabberley]

Yes, absolutely. I mean, if you look at $90 million to $91.5 million over eight years, I can think of a big solution and I think you guys highlighted it in your first report. We need good, long-term, stable funding. If we need $400 million, we can't spend it tomorrow. I don't think small craft harbours could spend $400 million tomorrow. But if we had a stable budget that took into account where we have to get to over 20 years, that's what we need to do.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Would you also agree that there really should be a B.C. budget that gets decided within B.C. as opposed to somewhere else?

[Ben Mabberley]

You're asking me to comment on the bureaucracy, and you know, I look at the staff we have in B.C. and they're phenomenal. And you talk to every harbour authority across the country and they talk about their staff the same way. Ottawa doesn't have a harbour authority.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

That's a good answer, Ben.

Elizabeth.

[Elizabeth McLeod]

I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg when it comes to inflation in our costs. I think the rising fuel costs are going to hugely affect the northern harbours especially. And I think we can see a sharp increase in what our dollars are going to go for there. We're definitely not going to be able to make the repairs we should.

Concerning your question about competition between harbours, we don't see that. The small craft harbours program has an overall plan for our capital dollars in B.C., and for the most part they stick to that. So there is not a lot of infighting going on about who gets what. That's announced, based on the plans.

I would like to see a bit more of an integrated plan, planning with harbour authorities, especially those that have staff, so we know in what direction the small craft harbours program is going. And then if opportunities come up where we can assist with bringing in other funding sources to these projects, we could use that as a baseline budget.

And I think certainly our budget should be decided in B.C. Nobody knows better than the engineers in small craft harbours and the funding staff about the overall needs for capital in B.C. And I think those decisions have to be made locally.

I hope that answers your question.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Mr. Chair, if we have any time left, I'll share it. How much time, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Two minutes and 26 seconds.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

All right.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I have some other questions, but we'll get to those a little later.

I just want to make one quick note. It was near the end of the presentation. I think it was you, Mr. Mabberley, who talked about wanting to increase the signing authority for smaller projects. Can you give me an example of what we're talking about in your particular situation? It sounds to me as if you've been through this many times over.

[Ben Mabberley]

I come from a pretty small harbour, so I wouldn't say I've been through it many times over, but I've been through it a few times. You understand that a $40,000 project is not much of a project in any harbour. And we have the desire to do our work, and at our harbour authority we do all our own work, but we have to figure out how to manage projects so they don't exceed $40,000.

So a project may actually have to be three separate projects to get it done. And especially in central and Arctic region, this was a real desire of theirs to be able to do their projects within their communities. You have to remember, whenever the Department of Public Works gets involved in a project, it's put out to tender. Very seldom is that work ever done by community members. All our work on our dock is done by community members. All of that stays in the community.

The ability to do larger projects.... Based on small craft engineering, we want to do the project properly, but the knowledge is there, I would say. We're not building airplanes here; we're building docks. It's not that difficult. And with the maintenance and repair modules that the small craft harbours program is designing, a lot more of the projects that need to be done could be done by small harbours employing community members. To me, it just makes sense. It's just the way to go.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I agree with what you're saying, but did you give out a number increased to a certain level?

[Ben Mabberley]

Absolutely. We would like the contract signing authority increased from $40,000 to $200,000. Ironically, the first time we made that request it was decreased. Then it was put back up to $40,000. We're scared to ask for it again.