Evidence of meeting #25 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishermen.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Karen Crocker  Chair, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance
Brenda Patterson  Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

I'll call this meeting to order.

I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome our guests. Thank you for taking the time today to join us. We appreciate you coming before this committee and providing some input.

As you probably are well aware—I'm sure the clerk has made you aware—we're studying closed containment aquaculture. We certainly look forward to your views.

The general process is that we allow 10 minutes for opening statements. Then we go into questions. If I interject at times during the questions, it's because members have constraints placed on them for time for questions and answers. Sometimes they try to get in as many as possible, but in the interests of fairness, we try to keep everybody to the same timeframe.

Once again, ladies, thank you for appearing before this committee today.

Ms. Crocker, I believe you're going to come forward with an opening statement. I'd ask that you introduce your associate as well. Please proceed any time you're ready.

3:35 p.m.

Karen Crocker Chair, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Thank you.

My name is Karen Crocker. I have with me today Brenda Patterson.

I am speaking to you today on the subject of closed containment aquaculture as chair of the St. Mary’s Bay Coastal Alliance, as an ecotourism operator, and as a member of the lobster fishing industry. I live in Freeport, a small fishing village located on Long Island, Nova Scotia. Long Island and Brier Island are on the southwest tip of Nova Scotia. We are nestled between St. Mary’s Bay and the Bay of Fundy.

The combined population of Long Island and Brier Island is approximately 700. The islands were settled in the late 1700s. Throughout the years from 1785 to today, the inhabitants of Long and Brier Islands have depended on the fishery to support their families and community.

My husband is an LFA 34 fisherman, as was his father and his grandfather. The lobster fishery in lobster fishing areas 33 and 34 accounts for 40% of Canadian lobster landings. DFO statistics for the 2010-11 season, November to May, show a total of 19,770 metric tonnes of lobster were landed in LFA 34. Since 1995 we have also operated an ecotourism business during the summer, offering whale and seabird boat tours.

Our islands have a vibrant and lucrative lobster fishery. There are currently 42 licence holders fishing from Long and Brier Islands, employing approximately 210 residents full time during the season. This number does not include the spinoff jobs created by our fishery, such as fish plant workers, truck drivers, local buyers, etc. We are resilient.

In addition to our lobster fishery, local fishermen recently developed a community-supported hand-line fishery, similar to community-supported agriculture, CSA, called Off the Hook. Off the Hook was just named runner-up in a global contest called “Solution Search: Turning the Tide for Coastal Fisheries Solutions”. This contest, hosted by National Geographic and Rare, recognizes community-based innovations for near-shore fisheries based on proven success. There were 103 entries from 48 countries, and Off the Hook was honoured to have been awarded one of the top three.

Our communities and our fisheries are now threatened by the presence of open-net fin fish aquaculture. The St. Mary’s Bay Coastal Alliance was formed in 2010 as a response to a lease application for two industrial open-net salmon feedlots in St. Mary’s Bay. These leases would be the largest in Nova Scotia to date and encompass 208 acres of the bay. Each would hold one million salmon.

The alliance membership is made up primarily of LFA 34 licence holders and crew, as well as local landowners and concerned citizens. Since our first petition in the summer of 2010, when over 80% of our residents expressed opposition to the application, our communities have remained allied against these feedlots.

The communities participated in the public process, including a screening-level environmental assessment where such applications are reviewed. At every opportunity our community wrote letters, attended meetings, and expressed concern for the project, and we appealed to the provincial and federal departments to stop the development. Our appeals fell on deaf ears, and the project was given a green light in summer 2011.

Our opposition to open-net aquaculture is focused today on three areas: the displacement of local lobster fishermen, the use of pesticides, and traceability.

With respect to displacement, what immediately alarmed fishermen was the location of the lease and its imprint on traditional fishing grounds. With the approval of the lease, 21 of our local lobster fishermen were displaced from their lobstering grounds. The area encompassed by the lease would make it difficult, if not impossible, for these fishermen to set pots where they had fished for generations. The area of this lease sits on traditional fishing grounds that local fishermen refer to as the “deep hole”. It is an area well known to local fishermen as being abundant in lobster in the fall, at the beginning of the lobster season in November.

In terms of pesticides, we quickly became aware of the growing concerns worldwide regarding sea lice problems that plague large-scale salmon aquaculture and the use of pesticides to treat these problems. It has been well documented that the pesticides used to treat sea lice infestations can be harmful and even fatal to lobster. The recent charges in New Brunswick laid by Environment Canada with respect to lobster deaths caused by pesticide use in open-net aquaculture is evidence of this link.

The decision to put these cages in St. Mary's Bay will mean that pesticides will eventually be used in our bay. Why would the Province of Nova Scotia, with the support of the Government of Canada, want to put at risk an area that is known to be one of the most lucrative lobster grounds in Atlantic Canada? The Atlantic Veterinary College lobster science moult quality report for 2011 listed St. Mary’s Bay lobster as premium hard shell lobster. St. Mary’s Bay is also a lobster nursery. To our knowledge, no one knows what impacts lice-treating pesticides will have on lobster larvae and egg-bearing females. Approval was given anyway to put 200 acres of open-net aquaculture in St. Mary’s Bay.

In regard to traceability, as we all know, consumers are becoming ever more concerned with where their food comes from. Consumers are prepared to pay a premium price for food that they know is healthy and safe. The Lobster Council of Canada just released a report on the lobster industry and full traceability of our product. The consultants found that lobster-buying companies such as restaurant chains and large food distributors are asking for more detailed information from suppliers regarding the origin and processing of the products they are buying. Lobster fishermen in our area are participating in traceability pilot projects. We support traceability, because we know that our waters and our lobster can compete worldwide.

With this new traceability program, we are concerned about the perception by world markets of the quality of our lobster if they are being harvested in and around open-net salmon aquaculture feedlots. The world is becoming increasingly aware of the use of pesticides in the salmon farming industry, and there is concern that the quality of our now healthy natural food source, lobster, will be tainted by being associated with exposure to these chemicals. New Brunswick lobster fishermen have told us that they were afraid to speak out about their concerns on pesticide use and its potential impact upon lobster price and markets.

The world is a smaller place now, and consumers are more demanding. We see studies now recommending that consumers limit their consumption of farmed salmon. If these feedlots are placed in ecologically sensitive areas such as St. Mary’s Bay, what are the implications for our traditional wild fishery? We find it increasingly puzzling to understand why our federal government is not concerned about this very real threat to the viability of our now healthy natural product, lobster. We believe that governments are moving ahead with the desire to increase salmon production in our province without exercising a precautionary approach to this type of industry and its potential to harm our already lucrative and sustainable lobster fishery. Our communities depend on this fishery.

Open fin fish aquaculture is putting the future of our communities and fisheries at risk. Why? Please understand that our coastal communities are not opposed to aquaculture as a whole and welcome new industry and the economic benefits of such endeavours. What we are concerned about is open-net salmon aquaculture, which can put at risk viable traditional wild fisheries. These projects are sold in part because of the supposed jobs they create. What needs to be of concern is the types of jobs these are. The jobs promised by the aquaculture industries are simply not there, and the jobs that come with that industry are primarily minimum wage and part time.

Our traditional wild fisheries employ about 90% of our island residents, with competitive wages. It cannot be disputed that the Nova Scotia lobster fishery is the driving force of Southwest Nova Scotia's economy. Lobster is Canada’s number one seafood export.

It seems that if Nova Scotia were to encourage the companies that want to develop salmon aquaculture to develop more sustainable practices, such as closed containment, we would have the best of both worlds. We would be supporting and protecting a very valuable, traditional, and renewable natural resource—our wild fishery—and also developing a new, non-traditional, sustainable industry: closed containment salmon farms.

The trend for people to seek out healthy, natural, sustainable food sources is growing rapidly and will continue to be very important to those producing these products. We would encourage government to develop industry in line with this growing and important trend.

Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you very much. We appreciate your presentation.

We will move right into the questioning.

Mr. Kamp.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presentation. We appreciate your appearing before us.

Let me begin by asking about your participation in the environmental assessment process at the screening level. You said you made submissions—at every opportunity, it sounds like—in opposition to these applications, and yet at the end of the day the applications were approved.

What is your explanation for this? We have to believe that these are based on good science and on good available evidence. Do you disagree with that? What do you think was at play?

3:45 p.m.

Chair, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Karen Crocker

Well, I think there are a couple of things at play here. I think the process by which these sites are looked at is no longer applicable to the size of the leases being applied for. The industry has gone from applying for what were once, 25 years ago, applications for small farms for maybe 5,000 fish to 10,000 fish, to now looking at leases for one million fish per site.

In our dealings going through the process, at every opportunity we submitted comments and concerns and questions, for which we never did receive any written response from our provincial government and the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

We don't think the level of screening is appropriate any more. It is the lowest level of an environmental assessment that can be given.

What we asked for was that things have to be looked at differently now because of the size of these leases and the implications on the surrounding environment.

3:45 p.m.

Brenda Patterson Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Could I add to that?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC

Go ahead.

3:45 p.m.

Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Brenda Patterson

There are a couple of other issues. The screening level does not provide any funding at all for public participation in that process. What you're really dealing with is a very small community, in many ways without scientific expertise, that's expected to be able to comment on a very large, as Karen said, mega-industrial site, but without the capacity to do so.

Also, the level of screening does not look in any way at the socio-economic impacts of a project. It's actually not included at that screening level.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC

Let me just say in response, though, that surely in the screening process those who are doing the screening are taking into account the actual size of the project. They're not pretending that it's 25,000 fish if it's a million. They're taking into account the impacts of that proposed project on the environment, the ecosystem, and so on. It sounds like you're saying they got it wrong, but we're not in a position to reach that conclusion.

Let me move on to another question. You talk about the question of traceability, and I understand your point there. Can you provide examples of the quality being tainted by proximity to an aquaculture operation elsewhere in Atlantic Canada?

In other words, your point is that if you put in an aquaculture operation, your lobster, which is of high value, is going to be devalued because now it's close to an aquaculture operation. Do you have examples of that from elsewhere?

3:45 p.m.

Chair, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Karen Crocker

The example that comes to mind is the lobster deaths that occurred in New Brunswick in the early nineties, and then again in 2009 and 2010. There were huge numbers of lobsters lost there within a 50-kilometre radius.... It was very alarming to fishermen in both Nova Scotia and New Brunswick that this was happening. It was then associated with exposure to chemicals that are required in open-net salmon farming.

What our fishermen immediately thought of was that we now have traceability coming into our industry. They're going to start tracing where the lobster come from—the boat it was caught in, the fisherman who caught it. Then you have the press talking about lobsters being killed because they were exposed to aquaculture pesticides.

It need only make you wonder that the perception in the world markets could be whether the lobster coming from St. Mary's Bay are now going to be exposed to these types of chemicals, and am I, as a person, willing to buy that product?

3:50 p.m.

Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Brenda Patterson

There is another example, Mr. Kamp. I can't give you the specific details, but certainly we know for a fact, both in Nova Scotia and also in New Brunswick, that farming of sea urchins...they will not be bought by the Japanese market if that occurs within a certain distance from an aquaculture site.

I can't give you the number of metres in terms of distance, but I know that's the case.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC

In the case you referred to first, if an aquaculture operation breaks the rules, there could be some negative impacts. But I was asking if the lobster industry is experiencing this kind of negative impact from being close to an aquaculture operation.

Let me leave that and ask one more question. I know my colleague is going to ask you more specific questions about the science.

On your involvement with the court case—the judicial review of the decision, and so on—can you tell me what your end game is? I notice some similarity with the case that was launched in British Columbia. It ended up with the Supreme Court of B.C. saying that aquaculture was a fishery and needed to be managed by the federal government rather than the provincial government. Is that what you're hoping to achieve? If so, how do you see that helping your case in St. Mary's Bay?

3:50 p.m.

Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Brenda Patterson

You're obviously aware of the court case and the position we've taken on the alliance, as well as the Atlantic Salmon Federation. On what's really important to us, we do not believe that the regulatory regime in place in Nova Scotia is strong enough. There's some hope that the federal government's regulatory regime, as it's developing and as we're seeing in British Columbia, might give us more protection in that. I think that was a large part of it.

One of the other issues is we do not believe that sufficient science was undertaken to have a proper baseline assessment done prior to the cages and leases being granted. There are also difficulties with the regulations on monitoring that are in place in Nova Scotia at this time.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC

Thank you very much.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you very much.

Mr. Donnelly.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank Ms. Crocker and Ms. Patterson for your presentation and the good work you do. Congratulations on your award. Off the Hook sounds like a very innovative and interesting initiative.

You mention this in your presentation, but are you opposed to all types of open-net fish farming? Are there any types of open-net salmon farming that you would support?

3:50 p.m.

Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Brenda Patterson

What specific options or alternatives are you thinking of?

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Well, it's a straightforward question. Is there any particular type of open-net farming that you've seen, either around the world or on the east or west coast of Canada, or anything innovative that you think is the direction in which we need to go? Is there an alternative way in which we need to go?

3:50 p.m.

Chair, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Karen Crocker

I believe the best way for this industry to move forward would be to closed land-based containment. I don't believe any type of open-net salmon aquaculture can be done that will not have some type of negative effect on the environment.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

So there's no way that the open-net farming industry as it currently exists could make improvements, whether it's in pollution of the receiving waters, energy use, or the food or chemicals used. In your mind it has to be closed containment.

I have another question about this. We just had a presentation at this committee on integrated multi-trophic aquaculture, but I'll come back to that.

I'm just curious, if you feel that strongly, and the people in St. Mary's Bay, Nova Scotia, and eastern Canada feel that essentially open-net farming is not something they would like to see, or if there are any modifications.... We're talking about jobs and impact on the community and the economy.

3:55 p.m.

Chair, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Karen Crocker

I think the best way to answer that question is to look at.... We've been seeing in the last three years that Nova Scotia's Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture has been expanding salmon aquaculture. There are several lease applications now in and around the province of Nova Scotia, particularly around the southwest shore. For every one of those projects, either the one for St. Mary's Bay, which has been approved...the other ones are still in the approval process. There are community groups similar to ours springing up in every community being considered for this type of industry.

Every community is saying the same thing: they know the importance and the value of Nova Scotia's traditional wild fisheries. For us, it's not only our jobs but also our way of life here. The people living in these coastal communities do not want to see any type of industry come in that could have any potential negative impact on the wild fisheries. We have Mayday Shelburne and Jordan Bay. We have Friends of Shelburne Harbour in Shelburne. We have citizens against open-net salmon aquaculture on the eastern shore. We have Friends of Port Mouton Bay and we have the St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance. Currently, all those areas are being targeted for open-net salmon aquaculture. If anything, the concern within the province is growing, and everybody has the same feeling: we don't think this type of industry is going to be viable for us.

3:55 p.m.

Member, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Brenda Patterson

I think one of the other comments was to the issue of displacement and in terms of jobs. Just in our community alone, as Karen has mentioned, there are 210 people directly employed by the lobster fishery alone on our two islands. With the particular lease applications approved for St. Mary's Bay, there was a promise of 16 jobs. Right now, as far as we know, there are six people employed at part-time, seasonal, minimum wage.... You can't compare that to the jobs already being provided by the lobster fisheries in our community. The jobs thing...it's a bit of a play there. In fact, the only community in Nova Scotia that really has any support for open-net salmon aquaculture is the one that has been promised a processing facility. That's it. Elsewhere—not at all.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you.

If the proposal for expansion was to go on land—for instance, closed containment operations—what do you think the response from your organization and perhaps the community would be? Obviously it's hard to tell. But do you have a sense of what the community, or at least your organization, would feel if the proposal was closed containment RAS, for instance, something on land?

3:55 p.m.

Chair, St. Mary's Bay Coastal Alliance

Karen Crocker

I think it would be very well received in our communities. It's actually one of the things we were discussing with the Department of Fisheries and Aquaculture at our public consultation, when we had several fishermen in the room offer land and said they would be willing to do anything they could. We had other fishermen discuss the fact that there's a lot of infrastructure already in place in our communities. Fish plants that are not operating—that closed as a result of the collapse of the ground fishery in 1995—could be used for closed containment aquaculture.

I think it would be very well received in and around the coastal communities in Nova Scotia.

4 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you.

Just shifting gears, I'm just wondering about this integrated multi-trophic aquaculture that the committee has just heard presentations on from Dr. Thierry Chopin and others, like Andrew Story, Bill Robertson, and Fraser Walsh. Is that concept something your organization is quite familiar with and is supportive of, or opposed to, or do you have a position on it?