Fisheries Committee on Feb. 27th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

All right, let's see if I get this straight.

Mr. Allen proposes the following amendment, and I'll read the entire motion as it could be amended if it's approved.

That because the evidence demonstrates that the Canadian seal hunt is conducted humanely and sustainably, the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans reaffirms its support for the Canadian seal industry; and that given the current state of the Canadian sealing industry, the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans call on the government to continue its efforts to open new markets and to protect and promote the sealing industry on the international stage; and that this motion be reported to the House.

Is that correct?

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Yes. It just would be “calls”, the standing committee “calls”. I guess it would be plural.

You did a good job on that, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I appreciate that.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

My opinion is completely changed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I was using the P.E.I. language.

Okay, so you've heard the amendment read into the record. Are there any questions or concerns?

Mr. Toone.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I have a few concerns.

We dropped the ball in 2006, and we recently dropped the ball in Russia. I'm not sure where the ball is rolling right now in China, but I don't think we have a government that has actually acted sufficiently. If we're going to present a motion to the House that says that we want to applaud the work this government has done regarding the seal industry, I can't agree with that, because I don't applaud what the government has done. In fact, I abhor what the government has done in the last few years. I think it's been entirely insufficient. I don't think they've supported the industry.

I don't think the government has been able to show that it's been able to support this industry. I think it's a desperate attempt at this point to try to shore up a weak position. I don't think the people back where I live would support this, and I certainly don't.

Personally, I think the original amendment is much more on point, that we need to do a lot of work, and I think that this committee should be pushing forward the work that really needs to be done in the future, and not try to—through the back door—applaud a government that has simply not done its job.

No, I can't support this motion. I can't support this amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Toone.

Go ahead, Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I wonder if there would be any agreement to remove the word “continue” and place the word “start”.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Oh, I'm sure you'll get a lot of support for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

Go ahead, Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I doubt if there would be much support for that on this side.

With respect to my colleague Mr. Toone, I just think he's unaware of what the government has done and he ought to make himself aware. He should know we are dealing with sovereign countries that make their own decisions at the end of the day in spite of efforts. This committee had Loyola Sullivan in here many times, whose key file was this one. He outlined for us those days, which he would say were the dark days, when more was done on the international stage to promote and protect the sealing industry than ever in the years before. Were all the outcomes as we would wish? No. That's what happens when you deal with sovereign countries that have minds of their own.

So yes, this motion says let's continue those efforts, let's not give up. This is what it says to me. At times it is discouraging when we deal with countries that are going in a different direction. You know, we've studied this many times, but the government can outline for us, within the Department of Agriculture and Agrifood as well as in DFO and DFAIT, the efforts they have made on this. This supports those efforts and encourages them to continue them.

We're supportive of this amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Kamp.

Go ahead, Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to pick up on Mr. Kamp's comments. I wonder if he could elaborate on specifically what the government has done in the past five years for the seal industry and why that hasn't been effective.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'll pass.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

You'll pass.

Is there anything further on the amendment?

Go ahead, Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

I'll just respond to Mr. Donnelly. Of course he knows those are questions he should ask the minister and his officials, and he's certainly welcome to do so. He knows that the minister has been in China on this, and Japan as well, and officials and the Prime Minister have been there. This has been raised. You know, we still like to think there are very positive signs of that being a new and emerging market for the sealing industry. But these things, especially dealing in Asia, take some time.

If he wants to propose at some point that we bring officials in and discuss this again.... We've discussed this many times. It makes us miss Mr. Blais when we're on this topic. Much has certainly been done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Kamp.

Go ahead, Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'll not speak for Mr. Donnelly, but for myself. I feel the concern is that we're going backwards instead of ahead. We've lost markets instead of gaining markets.

All I wanted to do with my motion was to indicate to the government the concern the committee has, with the committee understanding fully how important the sealing industry is, as I said before, not only to the sealing industry but to every other fish in the sea.

We all know what a consumer of fish the seal is, so we have to be sure that the seal industry survives, and we need the support of the Government of Canada. What is hard to take is that the Russians will not accept our seal products and they have a seal hunt themselves. This is just totally unacceptable.

I was not trying to do anything political or anything. I was just trying to encourage the government to put more emphasis on a very important issue that sometimes, in Ottawa, does not get the proper attention. We are supposed to know what's going on in the fishing industry. It's our job to urge the government to support and promote, and there are more government members here than there are opposition members, so it can pass. But the fact is that it's difficult to support what the government is doing when we're going backwards.

I appreciate saying that the sealing industry.... I'm not indicating that it's over; I'm trying to make sure that it's never over. In fact, I fully understand the disastrous effect it will have if it is over. The fact is, the sealing industry is vital to practically all the other fish species in the sea.

If we are to continue and congratulate the government for what it has done, not to be inconsiderate, but the fact is it has not done very much. It has not done enough and this committee knows that. All I want to do is urge the government to do more. They have to get out there and find markets. There are markets for these products.

If it were other types of industries, it would get more attention. The problem is, in the nation's capital it's too hard and too difficult to get attention for the fishing industry, and it's our responsibility, as a committee, to bring that message to the government. If there is some way to bring it so that we're not insulting anybody--and I'd never wish to insult anybody--but the fact is we have to bring the message that there is not enough being done, that we're going backwards, and of how important this industry is, not only to the sealers but to the rest of the fishery. If we can do that, I believe the committee is doing its job; if not, it's not doing its job.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I just want to respond to Mr. Kamp's comments.

You referenced what your government has done for the sealing industry and you brought it into this discussion. I know I can raise it with the minister, and I realize I can ask the minister to provide information. But you brought this up in this committee under this motion and in this discussion, and that's why I asked you specifically what you feel your government has done for the seal industry in the past five years, and why they haven't been effective at promoting the seal industry. That's why I asked you the specific question. In your response I haven't heard any specifics other than you referencing the recent trip to China that the minister has made. If that is essentially the specific answer to what the government has done in the past five years to address the seal industry, that's one of the reasons I can't support this, because it's talking about continuing to develop the markets for the seal industry, and I don't think that has been the case.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

I know we're running out of time here, but there have been a number of ministerial trips to markets such as China, and I know that Mr. Donnelly is aware of that.

It was our government that brought back in the fisheries conservation ambassador in the person of Mr. Sullivan. That was his primary job. I know Mr. Donnellt wasn't here at the time to hear the reports from Mr. Sullivan on this file and others and all of the effort.

Why are there less-than-ideal results? Well, life works like that sometimes. A big part of it—in Europe, for example—has been the people who hold philosophical views similar to those of Mr. Donnelly and some others on that side who have taken over this debate within the European Parliament. It's been very difficult to deal with that and be effective.

Frankly, it has not helped when we have our own parliamentarians, in the case of a Liberal senator and now an NDP member of Parliament, speaking out against the long-term viability of the seal hunt. That is not helping either.

I think this motion, as amended, does what Mr. MacAulay wishes it to do. It encourages the government to carry on, that we're not satisfied yet with the status quo, and I think we should pass it in this amended form.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I'm going to call the question on the amendment.

(Amendment agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to)

Thank you very much.

Is there any further business?

There being none, this committee stands adjourned.