Evidence of meeting #25 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was certification.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
In the notes we were given, under “eco-certification”, there was a point that said, “Eco-certification is a third-party labelling scheme whereby an accredited independent certifying body...”.
Who accredits the certifier?
3:50 p.m.
Director General, External Relations, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can only answer the question in the context of one program, the marine stewardship program. They have an accreditation body independent from the Marine Stewardship Council, and it accredits certifying bodies according to a set of rules.
There are other certifying organizations, such as the responsible fisheries certification program which Kevin alluded to earlier in his opening remarks, that use the ISO process for accrediting. The ISO process has an accrediting body that accredits those who do the actual work under ISO, whether it's certification or otherwise.
There are different types of accrediting bodies out there that accredit firms to do this kind of assessment work.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
Could you describe for the committee the quota-setting process and regulation-setting process used by DFO to either monitor a fishery or establish the regulations that govern the fishery? What do you do to make all of that happen?
3:55 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'd start with integrated fisheries management plans. I think we have 170 formal fisheries, and we have formal integrated fisheries management plans for 130 or so of them across the country. We do it through consultation with the industry and other groups.
It starts with the Fisheries Act. The Fisheries Act provides the overall approach in terms of enabling the minister to establish a total allowable catch. The conditions decide who can fish it and under which conditions you can fish it. Then the plan for the fishery is the integrated fisheries management plan. The plan for the fishery basically says what the season is, who can fish, what the location is, and what the rules are for that fishery, and then the licence conditions outline those things.
Included in the plan is how we're going to monitor it and what information we require from the fishers, whether it's carrying a log book, VMS, observer coverage, or dockside monitoring. There's always some kind of monitoring and an information system. Then we pull all of that information together. We get science advice before the next year, and then we go through the process all over again. There's a regular annual cycle to ensure that we have proper management of fisheries.
I would also point out that this is that third test that the MSC and others look at. They look at the effect on the fishery and on other fisheries, and at the management plan. That management plan, as I've just outlined, is something that is always considered, and it's something that always needs a passing test. I know Canada has always had a passing test.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
Would you undergo that same process regardless of whether there was a certification scheme in place or not?
3:55 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We do it, and when the certification process is under way, that's just a test to see if we indeed have it, but so far we've always done it.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
We had a witness in an earlier study, an industry representative. I asked him about Canada's place in the world in terms of the status of our fisheries management. He said basically it's world-class. Would you agree that we have a world-class fisheries conservation system in place?
3:55 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We would agree. I think, though, there are independent third party reviews of it that show, as I recall, we're in the top three in some reports that we've seen. Nadia?
3:55 p.m.
Director General, External Relations, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I've seen reports stating that we're in different places, but definitely in the top 10 around the world out of approximately 70 countries that actually fish around the world.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
I was interested, Mr. Stringer, in your point that when these certifying bodies come to look at what we do in Canada, they're always asking for something more. That just seems to me like a make-work project for them.
I happen to agree with your assessment of Canada's status in terms of fisheries science in the world.
It seems to me that it's superfluous and is a way for them to justify their own existence to ask you for more than you really need to provide.
3:55 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
They say that there's usually and just about always some conditions on the certification. For the most part, these are things that are in our work plan. It's a question of whether we were planning to do it that year. The challenge is, with respect to extra science work or extra habitat work or extra work on the precautionary approach framework, we have our own plans about what needs to be done which year and what's most urgent.
The challenge is when we get a fishery that's certified, we have these conditions that must be met within three to five years and that sometimes presents a challenge. That said, for the most part it's usually in the same direction that we were going anyway.
3:55 p.m.
Director General, External Relations, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
If I may add to that, your comments are actually something I've heard often from various players in the seafood value chain involved in eco-certification. Often it's an issue of striking a balance between stability through the certificate that demonstrates sustainability and having a regime that actually adapts to changes both in ecosystems as well as in the science and our knowledge and best practices. Often these organizations are struggling between those two. Having a set regime in place that doesn't change doesn't actually reflect the changes that could happen in the way we do things on a science perspective or in management or the actual environment.
Having something stagnant that doesn't change over time is not the best thing for the industry, but having something that changes constantly is not good either.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
My own strong view is that Canada's environmental practices across the board, regardless of what industry it is, are world-class and I find it offensive that foreign entities are passing judgment on our fisheries management practices. I view that as an infringement of our sovereignty. Be that as it may, nobody can over-estimate the cravenness of the business community in terms of pandering to public opinion.
In terms of aquaculture, tell me about the Monterey Bay Aquarium standards. That's a new one for me. What's that about?
4 p.m.
Eric Gilbert Director General, Aquaculture Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
This is a U.S. aquarium and they're pretty well known around the world. One of their main tasks over the last few years was to establish this seafood watch rating. They use a very simple approach: it's red, yellow or green. If you're on the green side, it means, obviously, without any doubt the product you're putting on the market is sustainable. If you're in the red, the advice they provide to the ENGO committee and the consumer as a whole is that you need to avoid those products because they are not fish that are produced in a sustainable manner based on their criteria.
In the middle, there's the yellow one where you can see improvement. It's not a bad choice, but it could be better.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
In terms of net pen aquaculture, Mr. Gilbert, we're fairly confident that the system we have in place in Canada is as good as anywhere in the world. Is that a fair assessment?
4 p.m.
Director General, Aquaculture Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I would totally agree with that, obviously.
I have something to share with you that may be interesting. At the beginning of all this, the Monterey Bay Aquarium qualified fish farming in Canada on both coasts as being in the red category. From their perspective it should be avoided because, according to their evaluation scheme, it is non-sustainable.
Over the last few years, they went into a revision of those criteria, and we, as a department, participated in that. I'm talking here about roughly three years ago. Based on their science and our advice, that process recommended to the head of that organization that fish farming be moved from red to yellow. After being provided with tons of information on how we're managing the sector, they felt that, from a science perspective, it should be deemed as being in the yellow category. Unfortunately, after some internal discussions, this organization decided not to move it from the red to the yellow.
4 p.m.
Conservative
May 26th, 2014 / 4 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Mr. Sopuck certainly opened a door for me. That's where my concern is.
Mr. Gilbert, you indicated that the information from DFO would indicate that the open-net concept is world-class and that, in fact, they have it in the red category. Is that correct?
4 p.m.
Director General, Aquaculture Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, and you see some kind of a—
4 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Do you see that as a problem? I do not understand all of this perfectly for sure, but if I understand it correctly, DFO feeds information on the stock and management and all the criteria to a body that decides whether a group can do the certification or not. Am I correct?
4 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There are two different things. In the case of the Monterey Bay Aquarium list—
4 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
—they're actually coming up with their own list. That's not certified. The certification process is through MSC or in the case of aquaculture.... What's it called?
