Evidence of meeting #61 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Perkins.
We'll go to Mr. Morrissey for six minutes or less, please.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Mr. Chiasson. You referenced that you advocated for another summit this year. What would be the benchmark, if there was another summit, that would conclude as to its being a successful summit? What would you be looking for at another summit?
11:20 a.m.
Executive Director, Seals and Sealing Network, Fur Institute of Canada
I think, honestly, the biggest benchmark for success would be that it shows that the government is making a concerted and comprehensive attempt to help the seal industry and to help the marine management of the northwest Atlantic. You've heard from other witnesses about how there was a forum in 2002 and another forum in 2005, and there was talk of one in 2013 that never happened. We can't let these be one-off conversations. We can't bring everyone together and say, “All right, we solved it; we're all good.”
We know there are deeper issues. We know there are more people who could have and should have been in that room. In particular, I will say the fact that the summit did not allow for the participation of a significant number northern participants that were interested in participating, including the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Government of Nunavut as the two recognized bodies for the certification of Canadian seal products in the European Union. They were unable to attend, so there certainly is room to improve.
This is not to say that the first summit wasn't useful. The first summit was incredibly important, but the second one will be more important. The third one will be even more important. I look forward to a day when we don't have to have a seal summit anymore.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Following up on that, you took us back to 2002 and 2013. I made a couple of notes. Why, after that period of time, are we still here today? What's the single item that governments—plural—have failed on? What decisions did governments fail on such that we're still here talking today about a situation that is reaching a stage where it is having—and the effect will multiply—a devastating impact on east coast ways of life and traditional fisheries that both indigenous people and our commercial fishers depend on?
Over that period of time, everybody in here has talked about the same products—I've been listening to everybody come in—such as oil and using all of the carcass. What has failed over that period of time?
11:20 a.m.
Executive Director, Seals and Sealing Network, Fur Institute of Canada
I will say, Mr. Morrissey, that unfortunately I was not in attendance at the summit in 2002. I was 12 years old at the time, which speaks to part of the problem. I think that really ensuring access for Canadian seal products to international markets is a core priority of the trade service and of Global Affairs Canada that we cannot divorce—
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
This committee is studying this issue, obviously—DFO, Fisheries—but I agree with you. Fisheries sets the quota. Its sole mandate is to manage the stock. It is not an industrial component of the government. It is not marketing. Could you be clear on what steps government, through its array of departments and expertise, should be prioritizing to establish these markets? Then I will have a follow-up question.
11:25 a.m.
Executive Director, Seals and Sealing Network, Fur Institute of Canada
I will say that the disjointed approach of the federal government—in which we have a market access secretariat at Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, in which the trade commissioner service is living at Global Affairs, in which there is now an industrial development section at DFO, without having really any control of the program dollars that were moved from DFO to Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada under AgriMarketing—is part of the problem. DFO sets quotas and sets total allowable catches, and it lives largely in a vacuum.
This is not part of the broader conversation around Canadian fish and seafood and Canadian agri-food products writ large.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
You referenced as well how obviously the most successful part is to do a harvest with the full utilization of the animal. Does the east coast fishery have the infrastructure to successfully harvest these animals at sea in the quantities required and get them back to shore in a state that an end-user processor can utilize?
11:25 a.m.
Executive Director, Seals and Sealing Network, Fur Institute of Canada
That's one area on which, certainly I'd defer to the expertise of some of your previous witnesses, particularly Eldred Woodford from the Canadian Sealers Association. Looking towards the human resource issue that we are beginning to face in the sealing sector, we need more professional sealers. In particular we need more professional sealers in the Gulf of Saint Lawrence, where the numbers of professional sealers in Nova Scotia and your home province of P.E.I. and New Brunswick pale in comparison to what there were 40 years ago.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Morrissey. There are about 12 seconds left, but hardly time to get in a question or an answer.
We'll now go to Madam Desbiens for six minutes or less.
Go ahead, please.
April 17th, 2023 / 11:25 a.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank the witnesses. What we are hearing this morning is very relevant.
Mr. Chiasson, you were saying earlier that it would be important to engage in respectful commercial hunting, in the human sense. I think we've heard that many times before. That will probably be the best way to develop international acceptability of this niche product.
How do you define a respectful hunt?
11:25 a.m.
Executive Director, Seals and Sealing Network, Fur Institute of Canada
A respectful Canadian seal hunt would be one that is based on our laws, our processes and the three steps that witnesses have spoken about in more detail at other committee meetings. It would also be a hunt that supports an industry that enables sealers and processors to sell a high quality product.
11:25 a.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
So there should be no waste. The sacrifice of the animal's life should be maximized, just as we try to do with normal food-producing animals, as opposed to what we do in slaughterhouses with supply and demand. I understand.
Mr. Engeset, I think you hold an important key to social acceptability, a concept that is ubiquitous internationally, especially in Europe. You are also concerned about what could become a more aggressive hunt, which would challenge the seal's survival. The goal is to preserve the animal's quality of life: if the species is too numerous, the seal will have difficulty feeding itself, which has been well demonstrated. There is also the fact that lives can be saved around the world.
What would you like the government to do to support your analysis and reach internationally?
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Steinar, you control the translation on your own computer. Somewhere there you can hit English, French or floor. You should select “English” so that when Madam Desbiens or anyone else is speaking French, you will get it translated into your earpiece.
11:30 a.m.
President, Harbour Grace Shrimp Company Limited
I haven't done that here.
Would she be able to quickly ask me what she asked?
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
I'll ask her. I have her time stopped.
Madam Desbiens, perhaps you could quickly let Mr. Engeset know the gist of your question, please.
11:30 a.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
I will try to summarize my question.
Mr. Engeset, in my opinion, you hold an important key to the communication and acceptability of seal products internationally, especially in Europe. You say that the objective is not to exterminate the seal, but to balance its population in order to re-establish the resources and the ecological balance. I think your approach is worthwhile.
What do you need from the government to be able to further convey your thinking?
11:30 a.m.
President, Harbour Grace Shrimp Company Limited
Mr. Chair, it didn't come through. I tried to get it in French, but it didn't come through.
11:30 a.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Mr. Chair, I would suggest that we send Mr. Engeset the question in English and have him answer us in writing. I really want him to tell me what he needs from the government.
Mr. Chiasson, I'm turning to you again, since I have some time left. You were saying earlier that people from Nunavut were not present at the last event. What was the reason?
11:30 a.m.
Executive Director, Seals and Sealing Network, Fur Institute of Canada
As I understand it, there were some representatives from the Government of Nunavut.
However, there were no representatives from the Government of the Northwest Territories. This was primarily due to a planning issue, but the Department of Fisheries and Oceans did not provide a hybrid option for participation: either people were there or they were not.
However, there should be more flexibility for people living in rural and remote communities to participate in these events. After all, sealing is not taking place in Montreal, Toronto or Ottawa, but in really remote communities.
11:30 a.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
You also said that, in the gulf region particularly, there were not enough hunters and that this expertise was much less widespread.
Not too long ago, we heard from witnesses, namely Mr. Menge and Mr. Komangapik from Reconseal Inuksiuti. They share knowledge, connections and contacts. One of them comes from the Îles‑de‑la‑Madeleine, the other has an indigenous background. You can feel their desire to pass on this knowledge. In your opinion, can we hope that some kind of internship or training will be set up for that purpose?
11:30 a.m.
Executive Director, Seals and Sealing Network, Fur Institute of Canada
In the Îles‑de‑la‑Madeleine, there are certainly many professional hunters. The goal of our current discussions is to see how we could pass on the knowledge of the Îles‑de‑la‑Madeleine or Newfoundland and Labrador hunters to people who would like to become hunters in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick or Prince Edward Island. There are still a few hunters in the maritime provinces, but not enough to have a complete hunt.
11:35 a.m.
Bloc
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Madam Desbiens.
I will say to Mr. Engeset that the clerk will send him a copy of the question from Madam Desbiens. He can then respond by email in English so we can make that a part of our study as well. Thank you for that.
We'll now go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less, please.