Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 6th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Foster.

[Dr. Jane Boulden]

Do you want--

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We're out of time. We'd better just keep going. I see our other witnesses are here.

Mr. Goldring.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Ms. Boulden, you instruct at Royal Military College, and you must certainly be on the curriculum for the military officers, as so many are involved in conflicts in different countries of the world.

You seem to be a little uncertain as to how you would describe the proper approach to democracy in countries, and even in the staging of it, and whether you solve the strife problem before you develop a democracy.

What do you teach the military officers in this, as they're the ones who will be implementing it? Or is there a fixed program that you teach them?

[Dr. Jane Boulden]

At the undergraduate level, I teach an introductory course on international relations, and we have a week in which we talk about democracy and democratization.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

How can you help your students to have clarity in how they're going to be approaching it if we have confusion here in the classroom?

[Dr. Jane Boulden]

First of all, I would say that part of what I was arguing is not that we can't have clarity, but that we need to understand the lessons we've learned from the past 15 years or so better, because it's not always the case that what we're doing is actually leading to the desirable results.

In terms of what I teach them, I can talk about the specifics of what we go through. I teach them first of all just to ask questions all the time so that they themselves understand that these are complex situations and complex environments.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

But if they're in Iraq, they have nobody to ask the questions of. They're doing it. I mean in Afghanistan. Sorry.

[Dr. Jane Boulden]

They're in Afghanistan.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

But they're doing it, so I would hope that they would have some instructions on how to deal with it.

[Dr. Jane Boulden]

They get their instructions from their military commanders, who get their instructions from their political leaders.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Mr. Foster, looking at two recently funded projects here--one for $60,000 and another for $100,000--and looking at the history of the organization, with $26.9 million since 1976, if that was divided into equal projects that were approximately the same, there would be some 400 projects.

How many of those projects have been done to try to bring some clarity to these issues over the years? Surely it's been approached. And if the projects have been bringing clarity to these in the form of proposals--these are proposals--I would think they would have recommendations. Is there any follow-up on those projects to see if recommendations are actually being listened to and incorporated at all? In other words, are there not solutions somewhere in those 400 projects?

[John W. Foster]

I'm sorry, you're speaking in terms of the history of the North-South Institute? Is that what you're addressing?

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Yes, I'm speaking about that and its many projects here, its research and development. This one here is to reform the agenda for the international development architecture. This other one is to develop trade and health. I would certainly think that there is some policy development and many of the other--

[John W. Foster]

Yes, and they're extremely diverse because the sources of our funding are extremely diverse.

The current project on the international economic architecture is addressing issues of southern voices for reform. So what we're trying to do and what we were funded to do is to increase the presence of voices from developing countries themselves towards the reform of international financial institutions. That may be changing the quotas at the IMF, or other specifics. So it depends very much on the projects.

I would say one of the downsides of current project funding practices is that once a project is over, you're not funded to do follow-up unless you specifically, perhaps, create another project to do so. I think there is considerable need for more, shall we say, core funding that permits that to happen.

Thank you.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Would there not be a need to do a cursory follow-up to see whether any of these initiatives have been implemented?

[John W. Foster]

We do that, but as you indicate with your use of the word “cursory”, it's often quite limited because of the stringencies of support.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Very quickly, please.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Ms. Boulden, how would you describe Haiti? Is that a post-conflict? I'm taking here, from post-conflict, that we're looking at Afghanistan or whatever. You're starting from a blank page politically, so to speak. But Haiti was a structured area, so would you consider that post-conflict or conventional?

[Dr. Jane Boulden]

It's a good question, because Haiti is not in some ways a post-conflict situation, although it tends to be treated as such from the perspective of the literature and to some extent through how the UN goes at the equation. But you're right, it's not necessarily a classic post-conflict scenario.

We are dealing with blank slates in a general sense when we're talking about post-conflict, but part of the point I would make is that in fact it's not really a blank slate. We have to take into consideration what has come to that point before we plant a model on top and say “Okay, here is the best way to proceed from here”.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

We'll go for the final question to Ms. McDonough, please.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you very much for being here this afternoon. I think we're probably all going to die of frustration, because we have so many questions we would like to ask and there is not enough time.

I think you correctly reminded us that members of the military who you find yourself teaching actually follow orders, and the orders come from the government in power. I guess it puts you on the spot, but that's also what we're here to hear, so I'd like to ask you this. You have emphasized the importance of lessons learned, you've emphasized the importance of really evaluating experiences, so given your extensive backgrounds in areas that are very relevant to the subject this committee is dealing with, do either or both of you have advice for the political decision-makers who are represented around this table from four different parties? From those lessons learned, from the analysis, from the questioning that's appropriate all the time with respect to the current situation in Afghanistan, which is described in part as democracy-building, what can you tell us?

I want to ask specifically about Kandahar, because Mr. Foster stressed the importance of civil society to civil society engagement. Really, it comes down to the question of what are the pre-conditions that would allow you to actually build democracy in any meaningful and lasting way. Do you have any good advice for us that we'll then still have to analyze and further question? For us, it's a very welcome opportunity. For you, I guess it is in some ways putting you on the spot, but you must not be surprised that this is very much on our minds.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madam McDonough, for a simple question.

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