Foreign Affairs Committee on March 27th, 2007

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Thank you, Madam Minister. I'd like to thank you, too, for being accessible, this being your fourth visit to this committee.

I'll make a couple of comments, and then I'll ask you the question.

I noticed in your notes that there's a 20% reduction on land mines. Another report gave the idea of what that really means by talking about 720 square kilometres of mined area; a 20% reduction is certainly significant, with 140-some square kilometres being cleared. As well, it's wonderful to see the increase in the number of children--up to six million children now--being educated, because that truly is our future into future generations.

My question is this. How does your aid effectiveness agenda fit with your priorities announced in the budget? How exactly does the effectiveness fit in with the priorities in the budget?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Goldring.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, dear colleague.

Mine-clearing is essential for the Afghan people to safely cultivate their land. During the current fiscal year, we have invested a little more than $30 million in clearing land mines. You must not forget that Afghanistan was one of the countries with the largest number of mines. We want to help with the reconstruction and the development of these countries, but we must first ensure that the land is safe.

The government feels that one of the most effective ways to meet our objectives in Afghanistan is to increase development aid. However, even if we improve the safety in this country, we must also provide the Afghan people with other alternatives.

That is why aid to Afghanistan was increased a first time in May 2006 and more recently in the budget, an extra $200 million contribution was announced. That will help us to provide assistance to the government of Afghanistan. We are in that country at the government's request, and we are helping to develop the country's institutions, strengthen its structures and provide direct aid to its people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

Mr. Khan.

[Wajid Khan, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Minister.

I have felt that our expectations are unrealistic in Afghanistan, a country with no infrastructure, no law and order, no democracy, no education, and no security. I've read the stories in the media, and I don't think they are very realistic expectations; therefore, they seem to be critical.

I stood in Kabul as a proud Canadian when I saw the work of your department and the development work that is going on.

Afghanistan has more UXOs, unexploded ordnances, than anywhere in the world. There were more bombs dropped in Afghanistan than in Iraq in 2001. There are more casualties, including our soldiers, from mines and UXOs.

What I'd like to hear from you today, Minister, is this. Can you share with this committee some positive developments on the impact of conditions on women and other issues--which I saw, but which perhaps people don't know? Give us some positive stories of success in Afghanistan.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Khan.

Madam Minister.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Afghanistan is a fragile country, and security presents a number of challenges. I will tell you about some of our achievements, particularly as they apply to women.

I have had a number of opportunities, including recently, to meet with a group of Afghan women in Toronto. They are very encouraged. First, they are extremely grateful for our presence in Afghanistan. They firmly believe that security is essential for development in Afghanistan. We have worked very hard with Rights and Democracy to ensure that the rights of women are included in the constitution. We have provided funding for women to attend vocational schools so that they can assure their future. The MISFA micro-credit program is an enormous success. Three quarters of the loans have been granted to women. That has allowed them to start small businesses and take charge of their own future.

Recently, in Ottawa, the director of one of the micro-credit branches explained that it had been created by women for women. It has been enormously successful. She gave a moving testimonial on the way in which they were able to help women.

We also allow women to access farm markets. Last fall, we announced a program. I had an opportunity to meet with representatives of MEDA, the Mennonite Economic Development Association. The women in charge of the program told me two weeks ago that the results were well beyond all of their expectations. The women participate and this allows them to grow vegetables, to sell them at these markets and to earn money for their future.

We are helping the Afghan people in many ways. I gave women as an example. We must not forget that these women were deprived of their rights, were tortured and injured. They lived in fear. The group whom I met with in Toronto was unanimous. There were about 30 women there. They become concerned when they see that the mission is becoming politicized. For them, a return to the Taliban regime would be a disaster.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madam Minister.

Mr. Casey, you have time for a very quick question.

[Bill Casey, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thanks very much.

First of all, I just want to say I went to Kenya in January, not on a government trip but with an NGO. I needed some help when I was there, and your representative there, Steve Weaver, was extremely helpful to me. He lined up some meetings for me with the minister of agriculture. I just want to recognize that your office really bent over backwards to help me do my job over there. I appreciate it very much.

Mr. Greenhill, I think when you were here before Christmas we talked about CIDA's involvement with Palestinians. I just wondered if you can tell us what's going on now with aid that goes directly to Palestinians. I understand we don't go through the government anymore, but aid does go. Can you give us an idea? Is the level of contribution by Canada that goes to Palestinians indirectly roughly the same as it was, and how is it delivered?

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

With respect to Palestine, our position will remain the same as long as the government in place there refuses to respect the previously signed agreements. We will ensure that aid is provided directly to the Palestinian people, without the involvement of their government.

Projects have been restructured to ensure that they will continue. We are still trying to find some way to restructure three or four projects, at most. We will ensure that the bulk of the aid is directed to the Palestinian people themselves.

Robert, would you like to add anything?

[Robert Greenhill, President, Canadian International Development Agency]

On the actual question in terms of an overall amount of money, under Minister Verner's direction, with the changes in the policy, the actual level of aid is remaining about the same as it was before. But as Minister Verner underlined, it's been done in a very careful, structured way to ensure that it goes directly to those who need it and does not pass through the Hamas government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Greenhill.

Madam McDonough.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Madam Minister, for being here. I probably have a hundred questions just arising out of what you said or didn't say. I'll try to get in three or, if I'm lucky, four.

I'm sure you're very aware of the exceptional vulnerability of persons in developing countries—particularly in Africa, but some others as well—to the combined impact of climate change and dire poverty, with horrendous disasters to people's lives individually and to communities. Yet in the most recent budget with respect to overseas development aid, with respect to international obligations, there wasn't a single mention of environment.

I want to ask you what the government's current upcoming budget commitment is to the continuation of the Canadian climate change development fund, which not only is desperately needed in developing countries, particularly in Africa, but is also something that is part of our Kyoto obligations, which we're not living up to.

Second, with respect to aid to Palestine, there is a desperate humanitarian crisis in Palestine with respect to poverty and disease. I want to know what the new national unity government situation presents in the way of an opening for the Canadian government to begin to recognize that the services and programs needed by the people of Palestine ought to be delivered through that new unity government. And will you, Madam Minister, be pressing for a change in directing our aid through that new unity government?

Third, with respect to Afghanistan, I have to say that I find it deeply distressing that almost always at the very top of the government's brag sheet about what it's doing in Afghanistan is the assertion—and they were the first words that came out of your mouth again today when you talked about Afghanistan—bragging that the single largest recipient of Canadian development assistance is Afghanistan. Of course, what you never say is that the level of our ODA in the world is at such an appallingly low level that this is almost a meaningless assertion.

In the Bill C-48, add-on funds that came from the NDP demand to the former Liberal government, there were some infusions of new dollars. But when you look at where we are with ODA today, if I'm not mistaken, as a result of this budget we're going backwards on our ODA level of contribution.

Because the Global Fund infusion was a one-time infusion, the fact is that it wasn't built into the base. I'm not sure of the absolute accuracy of this, but it has been estimated that, given the tiny baby steps we've been making to move towards our 0.7% minimum commitment, with this budget it would require an infusion of $600 million more to even maintain the level of ODA from last year—in other words, 0.34%.

What, from your point of view, is this year's level of ODA commitment as a result of this budget, and what is it projected to be over the next three years?

Finally, specifically with respect to TB and malaria funding, I think you'd be well aware of the horrendous numbers of deaths that are resulting from TB and malaria, particularly because of the co-infection implications, and that TB prevention and control and treatment is really one of the most cost-effective investments we can make to save lives in Africa. TB kills 600,000 people every year, and of course TB is the leading killer of people living with HIV/AIDs.

What I want to know is whether, in this budget, there is in fact a planned increase in spending, because I think what we've seen is flat-lining in the spending on TB and malaria programs, which means our investment in HIV/AIDS programs is actually far less effective than it could be.

Those are my four questions. I'm sorry there's not a lot more time for us to pursue other questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madam McDonough, for keeping it to four questions.

We'll go to our minister now.

Madam Minister.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you for your questions, Ms. McDonough. I will attempt to respond to each one individually, in some type of order.

You referred to climate change. I would simply say that among CIDA's expenses for bilateral, multilateral, and partnership activities, spending on environmental projects represent $300 million per year, or 10% of its total expenditures.

You also had a question about the new Palestinian government. I would say—and this is probably what my colleague from external affairs would also say—that we are taking a close look at its membership. Nevertheless, once it is clear that the Palestinian government will respect the principles set forward by the Quartet, and recognizes Israel, renounces violence and agrees to abide by the previous agreements, we will change the way in which this aid is distributed.

You asked about tuberculosis. I can tell you that this year, we have substantially increased our expenditures in that area. I noted, when I became a minister in this portfolio, that there had been a considerable reduction in the amount that was provided to combat this disease. Last year, the budget was $19 million. This year it has increased to about $33 million.

The government remains committed to fighting malaria. I believe that we were congratulated by the Red Cross, and this year, our expenditures in this area have doubled. I don't have the exact figure, but I know that substantial amounts have been dedicated to fighting malaria.

Your other questions also related to expenditures.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

They were about spending with respect to ODA levels of countries.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Our development aid increases from year to year. We also want to ensure that the ODA is effective.

I believe I have answered all of the honourable member's questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

My question is about our minimal commitment to 0.7% and the fact that this budget actually reduces our level of contribution. All calculations that I am seeing would indicate that it takes it backwards from 0.34% to 0.32%, which is very alarming considering that 0.7% is supposed to be a minimum objective. Many other countries are spending three times what Canada is.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I would say that...

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Respond very quickly, please, Madam Minister, because our time is passing.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I would say that we have reiterated our commitment to increase ODA by 8%. We have also announced an extra $315 million. Our ODA expenditures have increased.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

But we're going backwards this year with this budget. We're not going towards 0.7%; we're going backwards towards 0.32%.

[Josée Verner, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

We must also ensure that our development aid is effective. There has been a constant increase in the budget—

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

So we're not getting to 0.7% or 0.8% then?