Evidence of meeting #9 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nations.
5:25 p.m.
Director, Peacekeeping Policy, Department of National Defence
I might be sounding like a bit of a broken record. Again, I'm not an expert on the police component of MINUSTAH. I don't believe they have that--
5:25 p.m.
Director, Peacekeeping Policy, Department of National Defence
I will just comment briefly on corruption, because it's not only in MINUSTAH. If we think of peacekeeping missions in general and we go around the world and look at security sector reform efforts that involve militaries, a principal problem is corruption. If you don't pay soldiers, they will exact their pay from the population, and it's a terrible thing when they do. There are many instances when armies are being reformed right now and direct budgetary transfers are being made to those national governments in order to ensure that soldiers are paid.
Afghanistan is a circumstance like that. It's happening through the Americans in Iraq and through the British in Sierra Leone and there's an EU project under way to do the same thing in the Congo. It's not anything to do with Haiti, but clearly the basis of corruption is usually the lack of pay.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Madame Lalonde or Madame Bourgeois? Anyone else? We have about a minute and a half left.
Mr. Goldring.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Goldring Conservative Edmonton East, AB
I want to emphasize that one point, because it was brought up very clearly. Even the police department and the policemen themselves have to feed their families, so they will go out and be involved in some corruption. Of course it's like the old adage--the first law that you ever break is always the hardest one--and it can go on and on from there, I would imagine. It's very understandable: if you don't pay your policemen, they're going to find some way to feed their families.
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
Last Saturday, with Minister MacKay, I met with Quebec police officers. They told us that their mission was very difficult, given the harsh conditions people live in, but that they were well received. Bernard talked about this phenomenon earlier on. We asked them if they were afraid, and they said no.
They did not talk so much about corruption in the police force as they did the problem with impunity. They told us that members of the national police force who are honest will arrest an individual whom they catch red-handed. The individual will then appear before the judge. The judge gives one sentence if it's one offence, and another sentence if it's another offence. The following Monday, he's free. That is discouraging for the national police.
I had a long talk with the police director, Mr. Andresol. He said himself that at least 20% of police officers were corrupt and that the situation had to be cleaned up. But it's not simple. It is a situation where people's friends might come into play. The necessary political will has to be there to clean all of that up.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you for coming here.
Unlike Madame Lalonde or Mr. Goldring, I haven't had the opportunity to visit Haiti, but one of the things the testimonies bring out as we study countries like Haiti is how fortunate we are. When we talk about corrupt police forces and corrupt judiciary and prisons in Haiti where prisoners are rioting and they don't even know if they're going to get enough food, it certainly takes a comprehensive plan. And that's why we appreciate your coming.
You say the military is somewhat like a blunt instrument, and yet all these different instruments are needed. That's what our committee is trying to do, to find out as Canadians, the need to send more blunt instruments, how we can be more involved to greater benefit. That's why we appreciate your being here.
We will adjourn.
