Foreign Affairs Committee on June 7th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We will resume this meeting of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. Pursuant to Standing Order 108, this is a study on Canada's role in complex international interventions that involve multiple foreign policy instruments focusing on Canada's efforts in Haiti.

We are very pleased this afternoon to have with us, from the Department of National Defence, Colonel Denis Thompson, director, peacekeeping policy; and Major Michel Lavigne, desk officer in Haiti, Canadian Expeditionary Forces Command.

We welcome you to our committee. We look forward to what you have to say. I noted that you were here for a little bit of the committee just prior, and you know the regime. We give an opening statement and then we go through a period of time when there are questions. They are five-minute questions, which include the question and the response.

Welcome to our committee. The time is yours.

[Col Denis Thompson, Director, Peacekeeping Policy, Department of National Defence]

Mr. Chairman, committee members, thank you for your invitation to appear here today and speak about Haiti.

My name is Colonel Denis Thompson and I am the director of peacekeeping policy at the Department of National Defence. With me here today is Major Michel Lavigne, who has just left our operational section that deals with Haiti.

I intend to speak to the role of the Department of National Defence as part of Canada's overall effort in Haiti. I am sure you are already aware that Canada is a leader in the current international efforts to reconstruct Haiti. I know you will hear or have heard from other witnesses who will be able to outline for you the considerable investments Canada is making in the areas of humanitarian and development aid through active and constant diplomatic efforts to support the newly elected democratic Haitian government.

As is the case in other fragile and failed state contexts, the key enabler for the success of these efforts is a secure and stable environment. As part of the overall Canadian effort in Haiti, the Canadian Forces have made an important contribution to the establishment of an environment in which reconstruction efforts can begin, along with our counterparts in the RCMP and in other police departments.

The main Canadian Forces contribution as part of Canada's whole-of-government approach came at the early stages of the current international engagement in Haiti. Following the resignation of Jean-Bertrand Aristide as President of Haiti on February 29, 2004, the United Nations Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 1529, authorizing the creation of the U.S.-led Multinational Interim Force (MIF) with a 90-day mandate under Chapter VII of the UN Charter to assist in establishing a safe and secure environment. More than 500 Canadian Forces members rapidly deployed to Haiti with this force. The CF contribution was based in Port-au-Prince and comprised an infantry Company Group from 2 RCR from CFB Gagetown, six CH-124 Griffon helicopters from 430 Tactical Helicopter Squadron of CFB Valcartier, and National Command and Support Elements. This multinational mission quickly stabilized the country, and it allowed time for the creation and deployment of a follow-on United Nations-led mission.

On April 30, 2004, the United Nations Security Council adopted resolution 1542, creating the United Nations stabilization mission in Haiti, known as MINUSTAH, under a chapter VII mandate. To assist with the establishment of the UN mission, the Government of Canada authorized the extension of the Canadian Forces presence in Haiti until August 2004 to help bridge and ensure a seamless transition from the multinational interim force to MINUSTAH.

MINUSTAH is an integrated mission, meaning that all of the functions to be performed by the United Nations in the theatre of operations fall under one leadership structure, from the security aspects provided by the military and civilian police to the humanitarian reconstruction and human rights functions performed by a variety of United Nations agencies. Thus, the mandate of MINUSTAH encompasses more than the tasks of the military. The main task assigned to the military component of MINUSTAH is ensuring a secure and stable environment in support of the government.

In addition, forces are tasked with the protection of the United Nations personnel, facilities, installations, and equipment, as well as with the protection of civilians under imminent threat of violence.

MINUSTAH's current authorized strength is 7,500 military force members and 1,800 civilian police officers. MINUSTAH has symbolic and political importance for several countries. This is the first time Brazil is heading a peacekeeping mission as Force Commander, and Brazil currently contributes more than 1,200 troops to MINUSTAH. This is the first time there has been such a large Latin American participation in a peace support operation in our hemisphere. Uruguay is contributing 981 troops; Argentina 560; Chili 543; Peru 209; and Ecuador, El Salvador and Paraguay are all participating. It is also the first time China has participated in the peacekeeping mission, providing 127 civilian police.

Canada currently provides five senior Canadian Forces officers to the MINUSTAH headquarters.

While this contribution is modest in terms of numbers, in fact these are high-value contributions, providing the United Nations with key enablers in the form of experienced professional staff whom the United Nations needs for its forces. They also give Canada considerable influence over MINUSTAH's military operations and the coordination of humanitarian assistance and law enforcement.

The Canadian Forces contribution includes the military chief of staff, a colonel; this is a key position in any military mission. In addition, there are three other staff officers in important positions in logistics, operations, and planning. And since November 2005, a Canadian Forces colonel has acted as the manager of MINUSTAH's elections assistance task force, an important body responsible for coordinating the United Nations' role in supporting the electoral process in Haiti. While this position is not strictly speaking a military one, the United Nations made a specific request that it be filled by a Canadian staff officer.

I'm sure committee members are aware that the UN has been in Haiti more than a few times throughout the 1990s. It seems the international community has drawn a lesson from past interventions in all sectors regarding the need for sustained commitment. This requires a credible partner on the Haitian side, and most actors seem to believe that at this time there is room for optimism.

With respect to MINUSTAH, in February 2006 the Security Council renewed its mandate until August 15, 2006. At the same time, the Security Council expressed its intention to renew for further periods. This next renewal will take place with Haiti now under an elected and legitimate government, and in preparation a United Nations assessment team will produce a report that will identify new security requirements in the post-electoral phase, in consultation with the new government.

On the Haitian side, President Préval has publicly expressed his desire that MINUSTAH remain in Haiti. Political leaders of the Latin American contributors, such as Brazil and Chile, have made public statements expressing their solidarity with the Haitian government, and their intentions to remain committed to MINUSTAH.

For the part of the Canadian Forces, in full expectation that MINUSTAH's mandate will be renewed in August we are preparing to replace the four permanent positions we now have in MINUSTAH. The chief of staff position will change around in July of 2006, with the new candidate set to stay in Port-au-Prince for one year. The other positions will rotate at various times in the autumn.

In conclusion, while we continue to see localized and serious pockets of violence, the general security situation throughout Haiti has improved since February 2004. The remaining security problems in Haiti tend to be criminal in nature rather than to involve opposing groups engaged in armed conflict. It can be argued, therefore, that civilian police officers, both international and Haitian, are better suited for the task than soldiers are. Translating this analysis into gradual and eventual change in the composition of the response in Haiti will be a challenge for the international community, and one we will explore with the experts from the RCMP and the Department of Foreign Affairs.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to the committee members' questions on this subject.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you for your testimony.

We will move into questions.

Mr. Patry, you'll have five minutes.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I'll share my five minutes with my colleague Mr. Wilfert.

Thank you very much, Colonel Thompson and Major Lavigne, for appearing before the committee today. Since you have been to Haiti, you are well aware that the situation there is very disturbing. It is also one of the priorities of this committee and of the Canadian government.

You have given us a report on the mission involving Canada and other countries as part of the MINUSTAH. The Minister of Foreign Affairs has said that Canada would be present in Haiti, provided its presence was required by Mr. Préval's government. We are well aware, as can be seen is happening in East Timor right now, that if we leave too early—and we did leave Haiti too early once—the same problem could happen again.

I have a very simple question about a recent event. In my opinion, human security, the security of our soldiers, police officers, workers and the general public is very important. Why did Mark Bourque not get the help he needed from the peacekeepers who were working beside him? Why was he not transferred to a hospital that was located very close by? That was my first question. I will turn the rest of my time over to Mr. Wilfert.

[Col Denis Thompson]

If I may, sir, I'll speak in English.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Sure, go ahead. It is no problem at all.

[Col Denis Thompson]

First of all, there's nobody sadder, I think, than Canadian soldiers and those people who are involved in peacekeeping that this event unfolded the way it did.

The second thing is that it's currently under investigation by the United Nations, and unfortunately we can't comment on an investigation that's ongoing. I don't want to give you the impression that we're trying to skate away from it, but it's an ongoing and open investigation, which we're supporting, and of course I'll share the results of it in due course.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

You said there is an investigation and that you're going to receive the report on the investigation. When you receive it, can you share the report with this committee, please?

[Col Denis Thompson]

Absolutely. There's very little in the United Nations that's classified.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

[Col Denis Thompson]

I believe it will be a public report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right, so we can expect that report to be passed on to the committee.

[Col Denis Thompson]

Yes. In fact, your best access to that report—and again, I'm not trying to dodge a bullet here—is Mr. McNee, who is sitting here, because the report will be given to our permanent mission in New York. It will probably come through the colonel who's there as our representative in the permanent mission in New York. It will be shared with our department through them, and it will be shared with Foreign Affairs. And I would be very surprised if it wasn't released immediately into the public domain.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

When I draft a letter to thank Mr. McNee for being here, we will request that from him, so the clerk can take note of that.

Did we have a question from Mr. Wilfert?

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Colonel and Major, for being here today.

Colonel, you mentioned that much of the violence at the present time is of a criminal nature. At the same time, particularly in terms of what you're seeing on the ground, there's a report that will be presented, I believe, sometime towards the end of August, on what the role of MINUSTAH will be in terms of this new phase.

Given that there are these localized incidents, what role do you see MINUSTAH playing in the post-August period? And secondly, what are we doing to empower Haitians to take care of their own security needs?

I realize that you're probably not able to comment directly on the issue of policing, which of course is extremely important, but can you comment in a general nature on security? Because security without a stable environment can't lead to the kinds of economic, political, and social reforms that are absolutely, desperately needed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Wilfert.

[Col Denis Thompson]

Again, the answer is simple; it's the implementation that's difficult. The role of MINUSTAH remains exactly the same: to create and maintain a safe and secure environment in which people can go about their daily lives, as you point out.

The way that's done, tactically, on the ground, is largely the same, regardless of what the peacekeeping mission is. So there's a lot of presence, patrolling, a lot of boots on the ground, as we say, people out and about doing their thing. In some cases, we will team up with the local police, the Haitian national police, and do joint MINUSTAH and Haitian national police patrols. All of that will continue. There's a recognition, though, that from a Haitian standpoint, if you're going to hand over human security, or just security in general, to the Haitians, you have to develop this police force. And as you point out, that's the remit of our friends in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

I'm pretty sure that Chief Superintendent Dave Beer, an extremely knowledgeable fellow, was here and no doubt gave you chapter and verse on how that's going to occur. I don't want to speak for him, but I know that one of his hobby horses is to talk about justice reform at the same time as police reform. There's no point having an effective police force if you have nowhere to send it for justice to be administered.

These things take time, so while that's happening, MINUSTAH, the military element, has to remain on the ground. Now, what it looks like, in terms of size and organization, is the subject and the reason there's an assessment mission there right now. I think Mr. McNee mentioned this in the last meeting.

So over the coming weeks the assessment mission will look at a variety of elements of MINUSTAH and report back to the Security Council. The Security Council will consider what's been done. There will be a detailed plan drawn up in the Department of Peacekeeping Operations, which will be folded into the new mandate, and when the new mandate comes out it will say what the force structure will be--you know, it will have this many military and this many police.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you. We're well over time.

Madame Lalonde.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Colonel Thompson. I apologize, I had to make a telephone call. However, I have read your comments and I have a few questions I would like to ask you.

First of all, everyone including the International Crisis Group and others, agree that the first 100 days are extremely important and that security must be ensured quickly and impunity must end.

I would like to quote a passage from an editorial that appeared in a Haitian newspaper on June 6, yesterday:

When we listen to the news and the reactions here and there in the homes and in the media, one is tempted to say that we are far from being out of the woods. The facts: - A rise in crime, and an increase in kidnappings and killings of police officers. - Denunciation of the abuse of power of some magistrates by police officials. The denunciation supported by human rights associations caused members of the corporation to come to the defence of the dignity of the judiciary. - A renewal of the pro-Aristide agitation whose main demands are well known and which seeks to apply intimidating pressure on the new government—

So we need to ensure security, but at the same time, we have a great deal of hope, something we have not had for a number of years. However, the fact remains that the situation is extremely fragile.

Would you be prepared to recommend that we send more police officers and soldiers, particularly French-speakers, to help with the reconstruction? I refer to French-speakers, because I know that when you went to Haiti, after extending your mission by three months, you were asked to stay on, because language is so important in fragile situations of this type.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madame Lalonde.

Mr. Thompson.

[Col Denis Thompson]

I think you're absolutely right. All those violations and security problems are ongoing in Haiti. There's no question that's the case. And the kidnappings and general criminality you're describing are the sorts of things that are better countered by police forces and by francophone police forces, without question.

It's also a fact that at this moment the demand for francophone police in United Nations missions worldwide far exceeds the capacity to supply. So there are large missions, not only in Haiti, but in the Congo, Côte d'Ivoire, Burundi, and these are all missions drawing upon the capacity to produce high-quality professional francophone police; there just aren't enough to go around. So while we might agree the solution is to put more francophone units into the field....

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

For training as well.

[Col Denis Thompson]

Exactly, for training and even for security and for speaking to people. However, if we do not have the capacity to do that, it is impossible. Our capacity to send civilian police officers who speak French to Haiti is now at its limit.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Why did we not stay there? The soldiers, particularly the French-speaking ones, could have helped out at the beginning.

[Col Denis Thompson]

It is the same answer once again. It is because soldiers—