Foreign Affairs Committee on March 16th, 2010

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Cannon, for being here today.

I have a number of questions; in fact, I have three or four more questions after listening to some of your answers to my colleagues' questions here. Feel free to be brief in your answers if you wish.

Minister, in the main estimates under grants on page 11-6, there was a grant to the International Centre for Human Rights and Democratic Development, also known, of course, as Rights and Democracy. It's almost $5 million. Canadians of course are proud of the work of this organization, but as you are aware, the organization is in tumult because of the behaviour of its board of directors.

The conduct of the board members is governed by the International Centre for Human Rights and Democratic Development Act. In section 24 of that act, the board members are required to act honestly and in good faith with a view to the best interests of the centre.

Earlier this month, the chair of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission alleged that the board members are destroying a great Canadian institution. She's one of the distinguished board members who quit in disgust because of the behaviour of the remaining board members.

My question to you is do you think the board members may be in violation of this act of Parliament?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Let me first and foremost state that I agree with you in terms of the overall mandate, Mr. Rafferty. You're absolutely right, the obvious task here is to be able to promote democratic development and to advocate and defend human rights also in cooperation with civil society and governments in Canada and abroad. Rights and Democracy initiates and supports programs to strengthen laws and democratic institutions principally in developing countries. You're asking me my opinion on whether or not I agree with this, and obviously I agree with the work that's being done there.

But when you read the law, you will note that it's an arm's-length organization. This committee obviously has all of the power. You convened the organization to meet with you on October 29, 2009. You had the opportunity to ask all the questions, and I understand that you will be asking questions of this organization in the coming weeks. Certainly I encourage you to do that.

If this committee deems necessary, at the end of all of that, to review the legislation and make some suggestions, I will be very pleased to entertain those suggestions and recommendations.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you for that.

I don't want to go into too many details about the things that have happened. I think everyone around the table is aware of Rights and Democracy and the issues surrounding it and some of the things that have happened, but one of the things in this is a money matter. Perhaps Mr. Cannon or Mr. White might like to answer this.

A number of private contracts have been given by Rights and Democracy for private investigation, for auditing, for legal, for communications work. I think the grant we're approving here should go to meeting the mandate of the organization rather than handing out contracts to private firms.

Let me just use auditing as an example. You know, Rights and Democracy is audited annually by Sheila Fraser. If they are now spending grant money to have a private audit, it doesn't make sense to me: there's something wrong--I suppose--with the auditing of Sheila Fraser.

Does that mean that perhaps you don't trust the work of Sheila Fraser to do her auditing annually on this organization, that they need to spend money on private auditing?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

You're referring to the legislation, colleague, and clearly it's written here in section 30:

The accounts and financial transactions of the Centre shall be audited annually by the Auditor General of Canada and a report of the audit shall be made to the Centre and to the Minister.

As well, I think there is a review process and the same thing is there. So these are the powers that the legislator at the time decided to give this organization.

Here again, I'm open to your suggestions. You'll have the opportunity to meet with them. If you want to, and see fit to, put forward recommendations, please feel free to do so.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. White, would this be normal practice for something that is receiving money from your department, you being the chief financial officer, to even allow them, I suppose, to have a private audit when they're audited annually?

[Gordon White]

Mr. Chair, when you look at the legislation, the Auditor General is engaged to provide an external audit of the accounts. There's nothing preventing an organization from using its internal funding to conduct internal audits if it wishes, specific reviews—and I'm not privy to all of the information, so I'm just speculating here. This may be the case, but I would need further information to confirm.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you, Mr. White.

On another issue, Minister, as you know, there's a long-standing complaint among military and diplomatic personnel that their spouses who can't find work during postings can't collect EI when they return to Canada. Now, the foreign service has lobbied for years for spouses on those postings to get access to EI. The McDougall commission recommended this way back in 1981, but the government has yet to act.

Will you be pressing for the adoption of these reforms at the cabinet table?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you. The extension, I think, of employment insurance benefits is an issue that falls under the responsibility of the Treasury Board as well as Human Resources and Skills Development Canada. However—

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

But you can press for it to be addressed, though.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

—we are seized by the challenges and stresses placed on the families of our employees posted abroad and are exploring options for improving the support that they receive. DFAIT, Mr. Rafferty, is committed to doing what it can, what we can, within its means and its mandate.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Minister, can you tell us how much of the Canadian money that was matched by the government for Haiti has been spent or has not been spent, if you know either of those amounts?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Well, $154.4 million has been contributed by Canadians. Minister Oda has indicated, as has the Prime Minister, that we will be matching those funds. Madame Deschamps asked to have a complete list of how that was going to unfold. I will take it upon myself to ask Minister Oda to do that.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I have one last question. It's sort of an opinion question. I hope you don't mind me asking your opinion. Well, I've already asked you your opinion once, haven't I? But I'll certainly ask again.

This is a question about maternal and infant mortality and G8 and the emphasis that this government has now said they place on it. One thing, and you said it a little while ago, is that access to health care is probably paramount, if not right up there among the most important things, when talking about maternal and infant mortality.

I've done a fair amount of research on this, and probably the most important way and maybe even the cheapest way to ensure that those mortality rates come down is for women to have access to family planning. It's very cost-effective, and it's an important way so that people have access and the possibility to make decisions on their own. A big part of family planning, of course, is contraception.

I wonder what your thoughts are on contraception, in terms of government money in your department and others being spent on that particular sort of family planning.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Well, we--obviously in our department, and the sherpa here beside me--are in the midst of preparing the G8 and G20 summits to which I referred some time ago in my opening remarks. The Prime Minister has announced that we will be pursuing the idea of maternal health as well as supporting young infants. That is the policy; that is the position we have put forward. It does not deal in any way, shape, or form with family planning; the purpose of this is to be able to save lives. Too many people are losing their lives on a yearly basis.

As a matter of fact, and I'll close with this because you want me to be brief, when I was over at the African Union meeting, I met with the leaders of government at NEPAD, and they were extremely pleased with the Government of Canada's announcement of what it wants to do in terms of promoting this issue. You can ask the sherpa, but he has not had anybody say that the goal we are pursuing is counter to what they want to see done, and I take it from my meetings that it isn't. The issue of family planning hasn't been raised. Indeed, what we're doing is saving lives by helping people live.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Well, some millions of dollars are spent every year by this government on family planning outside of Canada, in their foreign work and support of organizations like International Planned Parenthood and so on. I guess maybe my question is are those funds going to be secure? Will you again, at the cabinet table, work to make sure that these funds are still available?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's all the time we have. Make a quick response.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I would just say, Chair, quite quickly, that if my colleague has the opportunity to ask the Minister of International Cooperation that question, that would be appropriate.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're almost out of time. It is one o'clock. We started a little late. I'm going to go with one very quick question from the government and then from each opposition party, and then we're going to call it a day.

Peter, you have one short question.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Thank you very much for the opportunity.

Mr. Minister, I see the line here for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. I've been involved with them over the years on election monitoring and was in Ukraine this year for the two elections for president of the Ukraine. Some say that the Orange Revolution was a failure, but I can state categorically that the legacy of the Orange Revolution is the free and fair elections of today; and that President Yanukovych's election, which just occurred, was a demonstration of the will of the people of Ukraine.

I understand that we had discussions before—at least discussions on free trade and more cooperation with the Ukraine—with the past president. I'm hoping that those discussions continue today with their new president. Will that be on the agenda?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I've had the opportunity, colleague, of meeting with their foreign minister—the previous foreign minister, obviously. We are highly regarded by that country. I haven't had the opportunity of meeting with the new officials, but on a government-to-government basis congratulations have been extended to the new leadership. I am looking forward to maintaining and indeed increasing our relations with that country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Goldring.

Mr. Rae, yours will be the last question.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Minister, when you received the letter from Mr. Beauregard on the subject of the evaluation that was done in private by a couple of board members about his performance, he asked for a meeting with you.

Can you tell us why you didn't meet with him? Second, who did meet with him in your department to try to create some reconciliation between him and the chairman of the board and others who did the evaluation?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I looked into that, Mr. Rae. The letter, which was dated November 3, was received in my office on November 15 or November 11—I might be off a week here or there—and from there, of course, it went through the system. By the time it was brought to my attention, it was unfortunate that Mr. Beauregard had already died.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

So you never read the letter?