Evidence of meeting #47 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was haiti.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Am I done? Is that what the nod means? Does it mean I have another question?
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I'm very interested in this question of what is the world's infrastructure to respond to this, and where does Canada fit into this. Can you give us your candid assessment as to whether the government has as effective an emergency response infrastructure internationally as it could have?
4:40 p.m.
Director General, International Operations, Canadian Red Cross
I think the Canadian government has done remarkably well as an effective disaster responder as part of a global community. One of the things I referred to in my remarks is this new addition over the last year of agreeing with the Canadian Red Cross to co-invest in creating this rapid deployment hospital. This is a wonderful addition, in the sense of the toolbox the Canadian government has when it wants to respond to an event. We saw that used in December.
4:40 p.m.
Director General, International Operations, Canadian Red Cross
Yes, it is in addition, and separate from.
4:40 p.m.
Director General, International Operations, Canadian Red Cross
It's quite different. It's much smaller, mobile, and modular, so we are able to tailor the hospital to the size and nature of the event to which we're responding. For instance, when we got called to respond to the cholera outbreak in Haiti, we took pieces of the hospital—if I could put it that way—and we composed the initial team based on what we knew we were going to need in-country. We have that capacity to be very flexible and very fast.
Also, that particular initiative to build that capacity in this hemisphere speaks to our wanting to have more capacity to respond to events in the Americas. That's an important thing, given what we are seeing in terms of trends in this region, that it's important to be able to respond. As we've said often within the Canadian Red Cross and within the Red Cross family, if an event happens in the Caribbean, we, as Canada, should be among the first there to respond. These are our neighbours. It's great if Norway or Japan can also join in, but in fact it's our responsibility in our own neighbourhood to be part of the arrangements we have among countries in our area. And I'm speaking as the Red Cross. We have that understanding that in a sense there are gradations of response: you know, your neighbour responds first, the same thing as in a village; if you actually need more help, then the people down the road will help. We see ourselves as that, in terms of our proximity to the Caribbean and proximity to Central America and to South America. It leaves us with a certain responsibility and certain opportunities to be very engaged.
February 28th, 2011 / 4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much to the witnesses and thank you to my colleague for giving me his space.
The reason I moved in was to ask about the issue of global community cooperation.
Last Wednesday I went to Brussels, representing Canada. It was an international conference on Haiti. It was organized by Canada, the European Union, the Belgian government, and the Haitian authority. I gave the keynote address. Michaëlle Jean was there as well, and so was the Belgian foreign minister and the commissioners from the European Union.
This was a conference to see, one year later, exactly what was going on in Haiti and what the challenges are. The conference was divided into two parts. One part was on best practices that have come out of the challenges, after one year, for all the NGOs and for the development assistance that has taken place. The second part was about where Canada played a leading role.
My keynote address has already gone to the committee members, and the clerk will confirm when they will get it. The speech I made has gone to translation, and it will be sent over to you so that you can see Canada's position. Please read it as bedtime reading.
We took a very strong stand. We took a very strong international stand on the issue of governance. As a matter of fact, my speech really shocked everyone there. We were there with the UN representative as well as the American representatives. We will send you that. I think you individuals and all of the Canadian NGOs working in Haiti should read the speech and see what came out of that conference, because we were talking about best practices and everything.
Michaëlle Jean mentioned one key issue to me. By the way, I have asked Michaëlle Jean to attend the committee, and she has agreed to come. She is the UNESCO representative. You will send the invitation to her.
One issue Mr. Lunney was talking about that I want to check with you was the issue of land tenure in Haiti. There is no land tenure in Haiti. Henceforth, land has no title. Today you can build something. One of the key issues with the debris not being removed is that those people want to indicate that this is where they used to live, because there's no land title. I want to know from you what the challenges for some of the institutions like yours are.
I allude to one hospital that had been built, and all of a sudden the title of the land has become an issue. The Haitian government can give you the land. The problem is that the Haitian government does not own that land. They don't know who owns that land. So you get conflicting statements coming in. You get conflicting people walking in and saying “This is my piece of land. You have already built this, but I'm sorry, this is not your piece of land. It's my piece of land.”
This has become a big impediment, from what I understood at that conference. Maybe you who are building structures in Haiti want to tell us your experience in reference to land title and the buildings you are making and whether you are facing similar challenges. We have asked. We are going to put in money, and the international community, including the European Union, is now going to work with the Haitian government to try to get a land tenure system in place. But as you will notice from the speech I made, governance has become the strongest impediment to providing long-term solutions, as Bob said, for work, for jobs, and for building the economy. At this current stage, it is bad governance and the lack of institutions, including land tenure.
Tell me about the land tenure issue. What are you trying to do? You're building structures, but are you facing problems?
4:45 p.m.
Director General, International Operations, Canadian Red Cross
Yes. Thank you.
We've certainly had exactly the experience you're speaking of, and Richard mentioned that earlier this afternoon, a couple of examples of that. I mean, we've certainly had a situation.... I'm remembering myself in Leogane, where we were looking at the resettlement of some people into some transitional shelter, and we got very far into a conversation with one person who was the mayor of the area and very close to the end—or what we thought was the end—when another person showed up who was the mayor of the next-door area. Both were claiming to be the mayor of the piece of property we were speaking about.
We have found our way, and I'll let Richard speak a little bit more about this again. We have found our way of validating to all parties and having it sort of authorized by local authorities as to “Yes, it is going to be understood”. As we were saying earlier, we've employed some local Haitian lawyers and notaires who are helping us with this process to validate as best we can and have it be understood by all parties and the local authorities that what we are doing is on solid ground, so to speak.
4:45 p.m.
Country Director, Haiti, Canadian Red Cross
When it comes to the hospital, we're rebuilding where it is presently. We were looking at other pieces of property, but where the ministry has landed on is where they have the present hospital, so it's reconstruction. So for land, for that piece, I think we're fine. The other piece is huge, and that was what stymied us from the beginning: how do we put shelters on properties where we don't know who the owners are or where they are located? They might be in Miami. They might be in Santo Domingo. They're in other places, other parts of the world.
We brought a system together that acknowledges, through the neighbours and the local authorities, that this person was residing on that piece of land before. He was a tenant before, and they all agree that the owner to whom he pays his rent is this particular person, and it is signed off by the CASEC who is the local municipal government employee. We built this system, consistent with all the other Red Crosses, because we didn't want to all have different systems from different Red Crosses or different organizations. We pooled our resources and asked what it would take to acknowledge that this piece of land belongs to such and such a person, how we would go about designing that. So we designed a process. For some, it's the first piece of paper that shows they actually have some sort of ownership title to the place.
We kind of created a system in Haiti, to a certain extent.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Would it stand in a court of law, if I were the guy who's making a claim, and you come along and create this system? Can I go to the court of law in Haiti, which is of course not...? Well, you know how it works. Then what? I go to court and challenge it and say that this guy is not the legitimate owner.
4:50 p.m.
Country Director, Haiti, Canadian Red Cross
But we have that with the pieces of land we don't work on. I mean, it's amazing; land tenure is a huge issue in Haiti. Four or five people claim the same piece of land. We can't resolve everything. We're trying to resolve the biggest problem, which is to get shelters over their heads quickly. We're trying to design a system where we can do it.
Plus, our shelters can be taken down and moved. It's not like somebody is going to push the tenant out and keep the structure. The tenant can take the structure with him. There is an impetus for the owner to keep the tenants on the ground and let them pay rent on the land alone. We had to design a system; we couldn't wait for the government to come up with a system. We had to design something that was workable, acceptable by the community and the local authorities. We were talking earlier about the amount of time it takes to do things and rebuild. That was a huge one. I mean, how can you start rebuilding when you don't know if you have...? So that took some time.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
You don't know who is the landowner.
Thank you very much.
Bob, read my speech, the speech that I gave to you.
4:50 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
All right. Thank you.
We're going to move on to Madame Deschamps or to Mr. Dorion.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I am going to try to leave a little bit of time for Mr. Doiron.
Ms. Johnson, with regard to funding, you said that it was important that CIDA remain a partner. Actually, following the earthquake, CIDA announced that it would give several millions of dollars.
What type of emergency response agreement or plan do you have with CIDA? Of the rebuilding projects that you submitted, are any of them currently on hold?
4:50 p.m.
Director General, International Operations, Canadian Red Cross
Thank you for the question.
The Canadian Red Cross has a very effective relationship with CIDA. We received a grant from CIDA for the emergency response in Haiti in the first few days, but I forget how much it was for. That grant was to support the Red Cross' actions in Haiti. It was most effective.
It is a system that we use almost every day, because emergencies and disasters occur almost everywhere around the world, as Mr. Ray said. As the Red Cross, we respond to these emergencies every week. We are supported by CIDA in this type of response.
When CIDA announced the counterpart funds, we made two requests for Haiti, for the houses. The two requests totalled about $42 million. CIDA has processed the files very efficiently. We signed the agreements last March and are going with that. We have had no difficulty presenting projects to CIDA. We have a good dialogue with colleagues from the agency. Files have been managed very efficiently.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
In your current or future projects, such as the hospital and the shelters, you referred to various partners: universities, experts, engineers from Quebec. Do you also have an approach that includes the diaspora here?
4:55 p.m.
Director General, International Operations, Canadian Red Cross
That is an interesting question. Even before the earthquake, we had a relationship with the diaspora, especially in Montreal. Since the earthquake, we have invested a great deal in the relationship with that diaspora. We have even hired people from the diaspora for the delegation in Haiti. We even have a sort of liaison officer, someone who works for the Canadian Red Cross in Montreal and who liaises with the diaspora in Montreal. This person's job is to help the Haitian diaspora understand the work of the Canadian Red Cross, the context and the challenges it faces.
Would you like to add anything?
4:55 p.m.
National Director, Public Affairs and Government Relations, Canadian Red Cross
We are working not only with the Haitian diaspora in Montreal and in Canada, but also with our colleagues at the American Red Cross, who are also working on the relationships with their Haitian community in areas where there is a large Haitian population, such as Miami and New York. They, too, are making a lot of connections with the community. There is a sharing of information not only here, in Canada, but also between the communities in other cities.