Foreign Affairs Committee on March 24th, 2014

[Carl Gershman]

Yes, that's my understanding.

Of course, they're preventing people from going back right now, so that will be very difficult.

I think it's also worth noting that my information is that there are now about 100,000 Russian troops stationed along the border with Ukraine. This is a very dangerous circumstance that we're in right now. We want to do everything possible to avoid any kind of military confrontation but we want to deter aggressive actions.

We haven't heard the last from Mr. Putin, but I think there are steps that can be taken to give him pause.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you.

Given that challenge—and I agree this is potentially a very serious flashpoint when that election comes up—is it your sense from your interface with the Ukrainian interim government at the moment that things are on track to make that deadline of May 25?

[Carl Gershman]

I'll let Michael reply. He's working on the ground.

[Michael Druckman]

It's a very simple answer. Yes, they are prepared.

I think the campaign is picking up at a much slower pace than you would normally see in previous elections because the focus is on the invasion, the possibility of war, and many candidates don't want to be the first one to put their name out there on a billboard advertising for the presidential election when everyone is trying to stay united and present the united front on solving the current crisis. The campaign is taking longer to get going, but in terms of preparations, the CEC, all are working to make sure those elections happen on May 25.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you.

I have a final question. When we're talking about a presidential election, my understanding is that we're talking about choosing one of the number of candidates to be the president of Ukraine. Is there discussion about a general election on the horizon? Is this something that is being talked about? I'd be interested in knowing whether that's in the future plans so that the Government of Ukraine will, at that point, be representative of having been democratically elected in the normal sense by the population.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

You have about 30 seconds here.

[Michael Druckman]

Thank you.

Yes, there is talk of parliamentary elections possibly taking place in the fall. There are also local elections that are taking place concurrently with the May 25 presidential election. In six major cities in Ukraine they will be electing new city councils and mayors, for mayors who were deposed by the previous government on spurious charges. They're trying to bring back democratically elected local officials in six cities, but we are expecting early parliamentary elections possibly as early as this fall.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Goldring, we have time for maybe one question and answer. How does that sound? I know, it doesn't sound good, does it?

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Mr. Druckman, when I was there in the Euromaidan from December 12 to 17, there was some optimism. The three languages were being represented—Ukrainian-speaking, Russian-speaking, Tatar—and then something happened. I believe that debate on the languages happened in the Parliament. I understand that the churches were represented in the Euromaidan too, and they were represented in elections. From time to time we see them marching with the various factors.

I understand that the churches have come together in some form of alliance and they have been meeting with the prime minister and others in Kiev. What would your opinion be?

I had a meeting in Edmonton with a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church and, counter to what I would have thought, he was very supportive. His parting plea was, “Please help my Ukraine”. I have to take that to mean there would be many people in the Russian Orthodox Church who would be sympathetic to the problems that Ukraine is going through now. Is there a possibility that these churches could pull together and be empowered somehow to work in their various communities, linguistic communities and religious communities? Could they somehow maybe broker a diffusing of the problems in preparation for the more peaceful election that might follow, to broker them and maybe take that input back to Kiev for consideration by these presidents who are running here, on whether they would support some linguistic inclusivity? Is that feasible?

They are Moscow-based, and if they were together and were to take that to their Moscow-based Patriarchate, maybe perhaps they could talk to Putin, too. Who knows?

[Michael Druckman]

That's a very tough question. When it comes to religion in Ukraine there are numerous Orthodox churches, whether that be Ukrainian Autocephalous, Moscow Patriarchate, Ukrainian Patriarchate. Often a lot of property is involved with church control, but what you saw in the Maidan, where there was a large presence of religious leaders, especially during the most violent days, risking their lives to go in between the lines, to go between the protesters and the police, was a unique moment in Ukraine's history for these religious communities to really come together. I would imagine this is President Putin's worst nightmare and that the Moscow Patriarchate leadership will do everything they can to make—

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Can they be empowered to be engaged more?

[Michael Druckman]

The more you bring them together and the more opportunities there are for direct communication and dialogue, this is a very positive thing. This is something that the Moscow Patriarchate, under the control of the Kremlin, does not want to see.

When it comes to the issue of languages, the language law that was repealed by the new Parliament—the original law that was passed by the Yanukovych government was passed illegally and unconstitutionally. By repealing the law, the Parliament was attempting then to correctly implement a new language law that would provide for the use of multiple languages. Unfortunately, it was done in a very charged environment and the acting President Turchynov vetoed the repeal of the language law, so the law, in fact, still stands where minority languages that are represented by 10% of the local community will be included as official languages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Madame Laverdière, a very quick question because we have to do a little committee business after this.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I have a very quick question which is maybe a bit along the same line but from a broader perspective. Yes, we are worried about the situation of minorities. I'm thinking of Tatars, Jews, Hungarians. What is the impact of the situation on them? What is your rapid assessment of the situation with respect to minorities?

[Carl Gershman]

I addressed that in my hearing, and we heard the statement from the Jewish community that even though they recognize some elements in Ukraine could be a problem, they are confident they're under the control of civil society, that civil society and the government exercise authority, and that these forces are really an insignificant minority. The remarkable thing of what happened in the Maidan was the way Ukraine came together and a new Ukraine was emerging on the Maidan. That Ukrainian identity that emerged was an identity shared by not just Ukrainians and Russians, because Ukrainians speak Russian—the divisions are by no means nearly as sharp as Putin is certainly portraying—but also the others.

So I'm really confident that Ukraine can become a successful, pluralist democracy. If they can establish the right institutions, the rule of law—which is of course where they're headed now with this first election, what the Maidan was insisting upon—I think they're not only going to establish a successful democracy, but I believe they're going to establish a democracy that will have a message for the world. People were not just fighting for individual rights. They were fighting for civic responsibility. Some very interesting documents have come out of the Maidan about the vision of civic responsibility that the people of Maidan embraced, and on the religious question, the various churches conducted masses together. Regular masses were conducted on the Maidan by the Orthodox and the Greek Catholics. All of them share a common commitment to a free and independent Ukraine, and as I said in my testimony, I think this will be one of the greatest results to come out of this, because if that goal is achieved, I think it's going to have a profound effect in Russia.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, gentlemen. I wish we had more time, but we have to suspend the meeting very quickly because we have to do a little committee business.

So Michael Druckman, thank you very much for being here today, and via video conference, Carl Gershman, thank you very much as well.

With that, I'll suspend as we go in camera, and very quickly we'll deal with the committee business of what we're going to do over the next couple of meetings. Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]