Evidence of meeting #39 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was iraqi.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC
Thank you.
I have two quick questions for Mr. Allos. It's very clear that al-Maliki failed to unify Iraq when he took over. We all know that story. We know about Haider al-Abadi's efforts with respect to Shias, Sunnis, and Kurds, but has he made any overtures that you're aware of to the Christian minorities in Iraq?
10:25 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes.
Indeed, al-Maliki always had consultations with the Chaldean patriarch, so there was no problem. Christians were always marginalized, and they accepted that.
With al-Abadi definitely things are better. There is dialogue. The prime minister, the speaker of the house, and the president are all in dialogue with Christian religious leaders.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Marc Garneau Liberal Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC
Thank you.
I would refer to Mr. Schellenberger's accurate description of the situation with respect to Iranian refugees in Camp Ashraf and Camp Liberty. It is a very difficult situation for them, largely because al-Maliki and his sort of control by Iran was not particularly sensitive or helpful with respect to that.
In fact, I've written to the Minister of Immigration and asked that we in Canada take in some of the refugees at Camp Liberty. Unfortunately, the government has said no. That brings me to my question to you, which is that you suggested in your initial testimony that it would be a good thing for Canada to accept some refugees directly from Iraq. Has your organization or the diaspora here in Canada approached the government on that matter, and if so, what kind of response did you get?
10:30 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, the community met with Minister Alexander regarding Christians and Yazidis, and they are open to suggestions, especially if it's not going to cost the taxpayers money. We'll be having further meetings with the staff at Immigration Canada.
December 4th, 2014 / 10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
This is a question for each of you, gentlemen. Earlier I said that the situation seems so hopeless, and you've all talked about the length of this conflict. There seems to be no end in sight, and one of the things we see happening with humanitarian needs is that donor fatigue sets in. We may already be seeing some of that right now, with the World Food Programme announcing the other day that it is low on supplies. The real problem that it has identified is that countries that have pledged money have not actually paid; they are not paying what they have pledged, and that may be some of this donor fatigue that we see setting in.
If there is no end in sight, the problem is exacerbated with every month, every year that this goes on, and the humanitarian need is desperate. Canada has paid up to date. We are the third-largest donor to the World Food Programme, and we pay what we pledge. Our contributions are fully fulfilled. My question is, how do we incent other countries to continue with their contributions, if this seems endless?
Professor, you've talked about some of the issues that we need to see resolved. Do you think there is one linchpin issue that we need to focus on to help bring this to a resolution? What are your thoughts?
10:30 a.m.
Professor, Ca' Foscari University of Venice, As an Individual
Yes, the linchpin is security sector reform in Iraq. Without security sector reform in Iraq, we are going to be at it again in a couple of years even if ISIL is expelled from Iraq. You have that as a linchpin issue. Otherwise I agree with you. Canada has set an example, and I think it is one of the most generous countries and also, as you correctly pointed out, one of the countries that pay their dues after they promise something.
The humanitarian crisis, particularly in neighbouring countries, is of gigantic size and scale, and this is why my recommendation—and I was telling the Italians and the British this as well—is that whenever we discuss security, which we tend to do because it's an urgent matter, we also set aside some time and some resources to discuss humanitarian needs and development issues that should go in parallel.
Bombs and strife cost a lot of money, so we always have to keep in mind that there is a humanitarian catastrophe going on alongside. At the same time, I would hesitate to use the word “hopeless”. I think we have to be realists, and that is why we have to be very tough and hard-edged when dealing with the Iraqi government. We do not have to allow them to go back to what brought us to the situation and to this emergency intervention. Perhaps “hopeless” is too strong a word, even if the situation is extremely serious, and that's why we are where we are.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
As an Individual
The government does have the money to spend on the internally displaced, and it should be pushed into spending more money and trying to spend this money through international organizations rather than through the Iraqi government, because certainly a lot of this money is going to the pockets of officials or their relatives.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
Senior Fellow, Washington Institute for Near East Policy
I think that while security-centred reform is key and the linchpin in Iraq, the overall key to solving the ISIL threat concerns a real settlement in Syria. I think it's important to look at the fact that there are real settlements, and then there's window dressing. I would encourage you to not invest money and efforts in window-dressing types of summits or arrangements where we try to sort of cut the baby down the middle. I'm afraid that, in the case of Syria, it will take real concessions from each side, on the part of the opposition as well as on the part of the Syrian government. I think beyond that, if we set that as a goal, you will find that when people see a real settlement in sight they will invest in it.
But, again, it's another example of how wishing for problems to go away and further isolationism doesn't work. It doesn't make us safer and it doesn't alleviate human suffering, not only in the Middle East but overall in the world. Instead, we've made the world a much less safe place to live. I would encourage all of us, in all like-minded democracies, but also regional allies, to work towards a common and sustainable end to the Syrian conflict.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Yes. We'll see if we can maybe get one question after.
Mr. Dewar has a question.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Allos, I want to just talk a little bit more about the domestic situation. According to our commitment to the U.N. Security Council resolutions 2170 and 2178, we were called on as a nation-state to deal with the whole issue of incitement to extremism, to terrorism, and to counter it we should be doing that through educational, cultural, and religious institutions' engagement. We are obligated to do that as a responsible member of the United Nations and according to those two U.N. Security Council resolutions.
I'm interested to hear from you about the following. What do you see the government doing right now on that end? I know there are provisions being brought in on the security side and more powers are being given to police and to CSIS, but this is a different equation. This is about engagement with communities. You touched on it before. How do you see that being able to be done? What are some of your ideas? You talked about people being brought together.
I was at a workshop here at the University of Ottawa. It had police, public security officials, public servants, members of the Muslim community, and other leaders. They were talking about how to deal with de-radicalization. How do you deal with incitement? But, you know, frankly, it was done at the grassroots levels, which is great, but there wasn't the support and engagement from government.
I think this is something we need to be seized with. I'd just like to hear some of your ideas about bringing people together to deal with things here in Canada.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Yes. The U.N. Security Council resolutions I just enumerated are calling on Canada to deal with our situation here in Canada with regards to radicalization and incitement, and you touched on it. I'd like your recommendations on how we can engage. That's part of our responsibility, and I'd just like to hear your ideas on that.
10:40 a.m.
As an Individual
Well, certainly there should be meetings between different religious groups, or even non-religious groups, and education about different religions. Certainly Islam is not a religion of hate, but because of how perceptions are it's leading people to go in the direction of, “Well, if you believe I'm a terrorist, then I'll become a terrorist”.
So, yes, there should be more education.
10:40 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
And bringing people together, as you said....
If you have other ideas on that, including names and groups, please pass them on to our team here. That would be great. I think that's the other part of what we are obligated to deal with. Obviously there's the funding, but there's the education and the engagement here in Canada. All of these other issues, including geopolitical, are very important. Diplomatically, there's what we can do internationally, but, of course, we have our own obligations here at home. If you have other ideas on that, it would be great if you could pass them on.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Bradley Trost Conservative Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK
Considering the time, rather than posing my question, I'm going to ask each of the gentlemen to do a one-minute summary, or 30-second summary, of your last bit of advice to the committee to sum up everything we've heard today.
10:40 a.m.
As an Individual
We definitely need to continue the military option, at the same time as going through the diplomatic efforts to bring countries together. Certainly, if Saudi Arabia and Iran sat together around the table, there would be a lot of changes. There would be a new president in Lebanon, and maybe there would be an agreement on getting rid of Bashar al-Assad and getting somebody in as a compromise. Diplomatic efforts are definitely useful.
10:40 a.m.
Professor, Ca' Foscari University of Venice, As an Individual
Be very demanding when dealing with the Iraqi government. Demand security sector reform. Demand change, in exchange for your support and the fact that you saved the day. Also, be very skeptical of Iraqi politicians, but more generally of Middle Eastern politicians when they start blaming outside forces. More often than not, they are trying to cover for their own misdeeds and responsibilities.