Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 9th, 2014

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

Are you talking about the Mujahideen-e-Khalq in Iraq?

[Gary Schellenberger, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Yes.

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

When we are talking about the problems in the Middle East, we should not expect that we, Canada, or the west, or even the U.S., can solve the problems between Sunnis and Shiites, or that we can change Islam. This is their own religion, their own faith. They have other problems which we cannot control. It's not a chess game; we are not moving pawns.

First of all, we have to defend our democracy. This is the most important thing. This is the first priority to prevent the foreign influence of radicalism from coming onto our own soil. The rift between the Sunni and Shiite didn't start yesterday, but we can see it coming, penetrating, and infiltrating into Canada.

We've seen some incidents, one in Montreal, and some in other places. A Shiite imam in Toronto revealed a few months ago that there are tensions here in Canada and also in the U.S. A meeting was arranged in Washington, D.C. to discuss these tensions. I think it is important in terms of national security to look very carefully at the tension in the Middle East between the Sunnis and Shiites, because it will affect us here on Canadian soil.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's all the time we have. We're going to move on to Mr. Donnelly.

Sir, you have five minutes.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I think it is Hélène's turn.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I'm sorry. I was distracted.

I'd like to make a comment regarding Mrs. Brown's comment a bit earlier that there seems to be something illogical about being neutral and providing humanitarian assistance. I would like to remind everybody that among the basic tenets or principles of humanitarian assistance is neutrality and impartiality, and that in fact, a lot of humanitarian organizations find it difficult to work on the ground to provide humanitarian assistance while Canada participates in a military action.

That being said, my—

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I'd like to make a point of clarification, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

What Mr. Halevi said in his remarks was that the imam advocates that Canada should stay neutral. My comment to him was that there is a breakdown in logic if Canada is asked to remain neutral and yet ISIS still...we are still being requested to provide humanitarian assistance. I understand that our humanitarian assistance is going to be neutral.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Canada is going to remain neutral, but it's a breakdown in the imam's logic that we can remain neutral and still have responsibility to provide for people, many of whom are from the Muslim community.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I think we could have that discussion, but I think there might be some misunderstanding about the basic principles of humanitarian assistance and international humanitarian law.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Not at all.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Anyway, we'll have this discussion another time.

Mr. Halevi, on this topic, you mentioned that some imams who condemn ISIS also oppose taking action against ISIS. By that, should I understand that you meant they oppose taking military action against ISIS?

[Jonathan Dahoah Halevi]

That's what I said.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

No, you just said “action” and I wanted to clarify that, as well as the fact that there are a lot of experts, opposition parties, and other countries who believe that military action, as it's done now, is just fuelling ISIS and fuelling the problems. I think it gives a different perspective on what type of action should be taken.

That being said, Bishop Mar-Emmanuel, you mentioned the issue of mistrust between various communities. We all know that once all this is over, hopefully as soon as possible, we will have a responsibility to rebuild Iraq. What kind of role do you think Canada could have in promoting dialogue between the various communities including, in some cases, within communities?

[Emmanuel Joseph Mar-Emmanuel]

Canada has a big role as a democratic country, especially in the crisis in Iraq. The minorities in Iraq are small ethnic groups and are marginalized. Even after 2003, the Christian minorities have had their representatives in the central government, even in the northern region, but still much has to be done. For example, it's all about awareness about the country itself. As I mentioned in my notes at the beginning, Christianity in Iraq goes back to the apostolic in its origin but very little is known by the average Iraqi. So the Iraqi majority think that Christianity is a product of colonial powers or has been embedded in Iraq by the western missionaries.

I remember myself in the mid-1970s when we read about the history of Christianity and other religions, especially in Europe, and about the Reformation at the time of Martin Luther. Nothing was being taught about Christianity in Iraq, that it existed there even before Islam. Even recently, near Kufa in the region of al-Hirah, more than 30 monasteries and churches were uncovered. The people there were astonished to find churches there. That would reveal something. So I think it's more like tolerance, the Christian being accepted. But sometimes the Christians, as a small minority, become more a victim of the superior powers, about certain policies and interests. Even in Iraq nowadays, mostly it's about the Kurds, the Shias, and the Sunnis. You very rarely hear about the Christians, so they're suffering.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you very much. That was a very interesting point.

We've had other witnesses tell us how essential it would be, if Iraq is to hold as a country, to build a sentiment of citizenship, of being citizens of Iraq first and foremost. Do you think it's achievable?

[Emmanuel Joseph Mar-Emmanuel]

I'm sorry to say there are certain difficulties within the Muslim world and sometimes among Christians or other minorities about how they are second-class citizens. With the Christians it's sometimes only on paper, and nothing in practice. They will hold certain senior positions, but they're not decision-makers. Sometimes they try to polish it or make it fancier. They are a democratic country but somehow we see Christians being marginalized all the time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Madame Laverdière.

We're now going to move over to Mr. Anderson, sir, for five minutes.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

We've heard of an organization that's working its way across the Middle East. It's butchering men on the way, enslaving women, and selling children. It's destroying the religious communities and minority communities as it goes. I think it's the height of simplemindedness to think that we can walk across and shake hands, hold hands for a while, sing some modern version of Kumbaya, and all will be well. I just don't buy that. We have some international responsibilities. We've been glad to play our part, and we will continue to do that.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Chair, I don't think I said that. Could we know which comment Mr. Anderson is referring to right now?

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I was just making an observation. I understand Ms. Laverdière's response may be because she knows exactly what I'm saying.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

No, I'm asking for a point of clarification. Can Mr. Anderson specify who said we should hold hands with ISIS?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I'm going to ask members to keep their comments to their periods of time. If not, we'll end up with a debate. We all get additional rounds, so could you move forward?