Foreign Affairs Committee on April 10th, 2024

[Marcel Lebleu]

As far as the Sahel is concerned, when we think of Russian interference, we immediately think of Burkina Faso, Mali and Niger, where the mining sector is of great economic interest. So we're very concerned. We've seen this influence through the Wagner Group, which is now Africa Corps. The services and choices in these countries are the result of coups d'état. These are undemocratic governments.

However, Canada has decided to maintain its presence in these countries, notably to help those most in need. Humanitarian aid programs continued, as long as we were certain that financial flows did not transit through the government. Budgetary aid to these governments was immediately suspended, in the case of Mali and Burkina Faso. We are continuing to implement the projects that had already been approved, but these are essentially aimed at helping the poorest sections of the population. In some cases, these are internally displaced people. The bulk of the project portfolio, since we're talking about places where we can make a difference, is related to the provision of health services and humanitarian aid, and we carry these out through our feminist international aid policy.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Let me help you a little. Let's take Nigeria, which will be doubling its population by 2050, if the numbers we have are correct.

Can Canada focus on Nigeria, for example? It's a French- and English-speaking country, I believe.

Is it a plan on the agenda of the department to say, “We'll focus on one market”?

[Cheryl Urban]

Very briefly, we have a diplomatic presence in the capital, as well as in Lagos. Lagos is more focused on commercial...in the capital, it's more diplomatic and relationship....

We also work with Nigeria in the context of dealing with regional situations and eco loss, but I'll turn to my colleague to add to that.

[Marcel Lebleu]

Very quickly, I would add that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm afraid we're out of time.

Thank you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Alghabra. You have five minutes.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

To the witnesses, thank you for being here.

Over the last few years, Africa has had some of the fastest-growing economies in the world. Ms. Urban, you mentioned in your remarks how there are many opportunities for Canadians, Canadian companies and Canadian workers.

When I was the parliamentary secretary to the Minister of International Trade, I went to South Africa and I met with some businesses. One of the business people I met with was a steel manufacturer who was starting, at that time, a business in Canada.

I asked him about the process by which he went about selecting this business and the investment in Canada. He had a simple answer. He said, “I was looking at the U.S. and I was looking at Australia, but I picked Canada.” It was mostly because of the trade commissioner service and how it was able to answer his questions, and how it was able to provide information quickly and efficiently and in an attractive way that helped the business owner make that decision.

I would like you to tell us about the work and the roles that our trade commissioner services are conducting right now in supporting businesses, and the opportunities that lie before them.

[Marcel Lebleu]

Thank you for that question; I like it very much.

I worked with companies for 20 years, as a sales representative.

I kind of belong to the corporation here.

The service was established over 125 years ago. Our presence in Africa is relatively small.

We have offices in the most important countries—Ghana, of course, South Africa, Nigeria, Côte d'Ivoire, but also Senegal and some East African countries.

Essentially, we want to ensure that Canadian companies have access to quality distribution networks and suppliers, and that they are aware of the law and our expectations regarding corporate conduct.

When it comes to Africa, most of our investments are in the mining sector, which in itself is a challenge. There are many challenges related to this sector here in Canada, but also internationally. When it comes to relations with local communities, we work a lot on the issue of corporate social responsibility.

The investment aspect is less important in Africa, because the latter exports very little capital. That said, we're happy to work with any African investor who would like to invest in Canada.

To conclude, I'd like to talk about a pillar that has received very little mention: the agreements that enable the creation of a favourable business environment for Canadian companies. We don't have many free trade agreements, but we are putting in place investment protection agreements. In the short term, we will be negotiating such agreements with Nigeria. In addition, there are several other countries where we invest heavily in the mining sector.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

As a follow-up to that answer, is there an opportunity for you to provide us with input?

We will provide advice to the government. What kinds of recommendations should we make to government to emphasize trade commissioner services in Africa?

[Marcel Lebleu]

As part of our consultations, we had extensive discussions with the private sector. Ultimately, we want to prepare a document that will be presented to our political leaders. We've received a number of comments, for example about partial market coverage. The Canadian presence of the Trade Commissioner Service in Africa is partial. We don't have trade commissioners in all our embassies. If more resources are made available to us, we'd be happy about it.

However, it's not just that. There's also the whole question of funding. I know the committee and the Standing Committee on International Trade talk a lot about the roles of other agencies, like Export Development Canada as an insurer and as a financial element.

Also, there's been a lot of talk about our role with multilateral banks, such as the African Development Bank. In the past, this was an important market for our companies, but it is less so today. We've always had a managing director based in Abidjan, at the African Development Bank, who represents our interests and those of other countries, if I'm not mistaken.

FinDev Canada will be able to support the Canadian private sector.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Monsieur Lebleu.

We're now going into the final round, with three minutes per member. If anyone goes over three minutes, we're going to have to cut them off.

We will start off with Mr. Aboultaif.

You have three minutes, sir.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

China is more economically desirable to do business with in the region. It is more aggressive. It is spending money in different directions. Whether its dollar diplomacy or its economic strength is our real competition in the region, what are we doing to be able to, if not counter, at least keep our market share at all levels?

There is a magic that is needed here. I'd like to hear the department's direction on this, and how it is going to achieve at least some of what I call our market share.

[Cheryl Urban]

I think Canadian companies are desirable in African countries. Canadian companies have a reputation that is known in those countries, and I think African countries welcome Canadian investment. That is one of our strengths and opportunities.

I have quite a stunning statistic about China. A 1% decline in China's GDP leads to a 2.25% decline in sub-Saharan African growth within a year. There are strong ties.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Can you name a single program the federal government has to help the private sector going into Africa and doing business and making investments there?

[Cheryl Urban]

My colleague was just mentioning that we have a range of tools that we use in order to help Canadian businesses go in. We have our trade commissioner service, which provides information. There is a role for government in talking to the Canadian private sector about what the risks of going in are and what the opportunities are.

Also, as I mentioned, in collaboration with our G7 partners, we are engaging in initiatives that are investing in infrastructure.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

How much indirect business do we do in Africa through the G7?

[Cheryl Urban]

I don't have that statistic on hand, but we can try to find that and provide that.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

That would be great.

In the past, we had the PEMD program helping a lot of companies do business overseas. Do we have something similar these days, in the last eight years, that can at least give us some hope that we're going to achieve something or penetrate the market?

[Marcel Lebleu]

Yes, we do have a program that will support Canadian companies' expansion abroad.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Can you name it, please?

[Marcel Lebleu]

It's CanExport.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We will now go to MP Chatel.

You have three minutes.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I was very pleased to learn that Ben Marc Diendéré, a graduate of the HEC school in Montreal, has been appointed Canada's representative and permanent observer to the African Union.

This brings me precisely to the presence and influence of the French language and culture in Canada, particularly in Quebec, but also in other regions, such as New Brunswick. It's an absolutely essential asset if we want to build bridges with French-speaking African countries.

How do we use cultural and linguistic diplomacy to facilitate trade and investment with African countries, particularly in sectors where we can offer our expertise in renewable green technologies, security and education?

For my part, I find this appointment quite central. It's part of a strategy of cultural and linguistic diplomacy.

[Marcel Lebleu]

Of course, it's a tool in our tool box.

Our assistant deputy minister gave a few examples of activities carried out by our colleague Ambassador Anderson Blanc, who is stationed in Abidjan and works closely with the Quebec Office.

However, this outreach is not limited to Quebec. Mr. Blanc told me that, in September or October 2023, he hosted a mission from New Brunswick, led by the Minister responsible for la Francophonie, Mr. Glen Savoie.

Also in October, we received a mission from Ontario to Côte d'Ivoire. The mission was led by Dominic Mailloux, president of the Fédération des gens d'affaires francophones de l'Ontario.

We also worked closely with organizations from la Francophonie. A large gathering of francophone entrepreneurs, led in large part by Mr. Karl Blackburn, was held in Quebec City last year. We helped promote the event.

In my region, I'm more attached to la Francophonie than to the Commonwealth, where there are possibly examples of this kind.

I'll close with a brief example of cultural diplomacy.

My colleagues in Lagos, which is a great cultural capital, but English-speaking, told us that, on International Francophonie Day, they showed a Quebec film with the support of the French and Swiss. They were a great success in a very competitive market.

These branding initiatives are useful to us not only in French-speaking countries, but also in other countries.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Next we will go to Mr. Bergeron.

You have three minutes.