Foreign Affairs Committee on June 8th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We will now go to MP Green.

You have a minute and a half, please.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Dr. Schmidt, your point about incrementalism is well taken. Could you provide the committee with a list of people, entities or countries that you believe should be on our sanctions list?

[Benjamin Schmitt]

Yes, absolutely.

What I mean by that is that we've taken steps, but we could have gone a lot faster on them in terms of sanctions. Again, it's not just announcing the sanctions policies; we actually have to have them in force. As I said earlier, space technology can really help on the high seas.

In terms of the actions that can, should and must be taken, we need to impose sanctions against Russian hydrocarbon companies as well as Gazprombank, while developing sanctions to encourage full divestment of existing western technology service providers that are still operating in the Russian Federation. That is absolutely unacceptable.

In the financial sector, we have to impose sanctions on the 10 largest banks and set deadlines for foreign banks still operating in Russia to exit the country. Finally, especially with the events of this week—let's be clear—we have to designate Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism or a terrorist state itself. This is absolutely overdue. It's something that's been called on for over a year.

Furthermore, we must transfer the roughly $300 billion in frozen Russian central bank assets held by the west to support the Ukrainian military effort as well as future Ukrainian reconstruction.

Assets from Putin's Russia should be used to help Ukraine, not just fall solely on taxpayers from western democracies, because the perpetrator of the crime needs to pay for the crime.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would just invite the witnesses to submit lists as well, if they think there are other entities.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, MP Green.

Our time is over.

Thank you very much, Professor Cardwell. We're very grateful.

Senator Andreychuk, it's always great to see you.

Mr. Schmitt, thank you very much for your expertise.

I am certain that all of your observations will find their way into our final report. Thank you.

We'll suspend for approximately three or four minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Welcome back, everyone.

We will now resume our study of Canada's sanctions regime.

For the second hour, it is my great pleasure to welcome two witnesses.

First of all, from the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan, we're grateful to have Mr. Ali Maisam Nazary. Some of you are familiar with him. He comes to Ottawa, but regrettably today he is joining us by video conference.

In addition to him, from Project Ploughshares, we have Kelsey Gallagher.

Mr. Nazary, we will start off with you. You have five minutes for your opening comments. As soon as your time is getting very close, I will hold this up as a signal. We would be grateful if you wrapped it up then, and then we will go to our second witness after that.

Mr. Nazary, the floors is yours. You have five minutes.

[Ali Maisam Nazary, Head of Foreign Relations, National Resistance Front of Afghanistan]

Thank you, Honourable Chairman Ehsassi.

Honourable members, it is truly a pleasure and honour to be part of this meeting today.

I am here today with profound gratitude for the steadfast support and assistance Canada has extended towards Afghanistan over the decades. Canada remained one of the most significant partners and donors for Afghanistan until the unfortunate fall of the democratic republic.

The rigorous sanctions regime that your country has imposed on the Taliban is a testament to your commitment to justice and freedom, as well as a firm stand against terrorism. We deeply appreciate and applaud Canada for refusing to recognize and legitimize the Taliban, which is a group that has ushered in a reign of terror, tyranny and chaos in Afghanistan.

Such sanctions are not just punitive measures, but a powerful tool to restrain the barbarity of the Taliban, which has been the cause of multi-faceted crises—political, humanitarian, security, economic and social crises—ever since their rise to power two years ago.

The Taliban has exhibited an overwhelming drive to obliterate and destroy state institutions, not to build and strengthen them as statesmen. Their incapacity to govern has plunged Afghanistan into a vortex of division, which is carving the country into fiefdoms, shifting the political centre to Kandahar, monopolizing power in the hands of a few extremists and uneducated clerics from only a few tribes within an ethnic group, and escalating internal strife. Moreover, their rule been has been a terrifying spectacle of tyranny, human rights violations and oppression, which is ruthlessly erasing women from public life and robbing them of their basic human rights. They have not just created a gender apartheid, but an ethnic one as well, as they are actively persecuting Afghanistan's ethnic groups and seeking to erase our cultural, religious and linguistic diversity.

Yesterday's report by Amnesty International about the Taliban's war crimes in Panjshir and our own reports, with evidence shared with international organizations including the UN, shed light on the Taliban's unrelenting war crimes and atrocities that have been committed in many provinces, such as Panjshir, Baghlan, Badakshan, Daykundi and other provinces. These acts of violence and persecution have spurred a massive displacement of people, ethnic cleansing and a severe humanitarian crisis.

While we appreciate the international community's efforts in providing aid to Afghanistan, it's critical to recognize that aid alone cannot alleviate or resolve this crisis. The Taliban, in their self-serving ways, manipulate aid distribution, fostering a lifeline for their rule while millions starve. Their discriminatory practices, based on ethnicity, region and political affiliations, ensure that the majority of the country is deprived of vital assistance. The only plausible solution to end the humanitarian crisis and salvage the people of Afghanistan is to end the oppressive reign of the Taliban.

Their return to power in August 2021 also compromised our territorial integrity and national sovereignty, transforming Afghanistan into a breeding ground and hub for 21 regional and international terrorist groups, and more than 13,000 foreign fighters. This state of affairs is a grave threat to regional and global security.

For these reasons, we advocate for maintaining and strengthening the sanctions on the Taliban and other terrorist groups. These measures apply pressure to them, weaken their grip on power and prepare the ground for their potential demise. The people of Afghanistan, particularly the democratic forces and freedom fighters of the National Resistance Front, rely on partners like Canada to stand firm in our shared commitment to humanity, democracy, pluralism, freedom and justice.

We remain hopeful, despite our hardships, and we implore Canada and the international community to sustain their support and to lend their strength to the people of Afghanistan.

Thank you for standing by us, for hearing us today and for your continued commitment to peace, justice and human rights.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nazary.

We now go to Mr. Gallagher.

Mr. Gallagher, you likewise have five minutes.

[Kelsey Gallagher, Researcher, Project Ploughshares]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the invitation to present here today.

My name is Kelsey Gallagher, and I am a researcher with Project Ploughshares, where I focus on Canadian military exports and the international arms trade. My intervention today will focus on transparency and regulatory gaps facing Canada's export of dual-use technologies and military goods.

Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine has demonstrated the need for effective regulations on transfers of dual-use goods. Despite the efforts of western states, dual-use goods have been found integrated into numerous weapons systems that Russia has deployed in its ongoing assault on Ukraine. A Norwegian risk consultancy firm recently found that, since last February, eight billion euros worth of sanctioned products had entered Russia, rerouted through third countries. Much of these goods were reported to be dual-use.

In February, 2022, Canada revoked export and brokering permits to Russia for controlled goods, which included conventional weapons, dual-use goods and all other categories of technology listed under Canada's export control list.

Although not without its flaws, Canada's reporting record on arms exports is relatively transparent. However, it publishes almost no information on its actual export of dual-use goods, unlike a number of like-minded states.

Canada's export of dual-use goods requires greater scrutiny and transparency. To this end, Global Affairs Canada should begin publishing comprehensive data on Canadian exports of dual-use goods, as it does for other military goods. This information, at the very least, should include the value of those exports, descriptions of the goods, and their authorized end users. Such data, particularly on transfers to destinations that have been identified as conduits to bypass export controls, would provide greater insights on the potential proliferation of sensitive Canadian technology abroad.

An examination of the extraterritorial application of Canadian sanctions could also reveal other weaknesses in Canada's regulatory regime. Of particular interest are alleged sanctions violations by companies with deep Canadian roots that also perform operations abroad.

The Streit Group, an armoured vehicle manufacturer established in Toronto in the 1990s, is perhaps Canada's most controversial arms supplier. It now claims to be one of the largest privately owned armoured vehicle manufacturers in the world.

While maintaining a Canadian headquarters in Innisfil, Ontario, it has established parallel manufacturing centres in several countries with weak export control regimes. The largest is in the UAE. It has been suggested that the Streit Group engages in jurisdiction shopping to identify export control havens that it uses to supply military goods to its most problematic customers and evade arms embargoes.

The Streit Group has openly breached arms embargoes by shipping weapons to Libya, Sudan and South Sudan. In 2020, its vehicles were used by Belarusian security services to quell internal democracy protests. It has exported military goods to a host of other problematic locations.

The company's activities have drawn scrutiny and led to investigations by the U.S. Department of Commerce and the United Nations. While an RCMP investigation was reportedly launched in 2016 following allegations of sanctions violations, no findings have been made public and there is no public record of any subsequent action.

A 2017 publication by the Rideau Institute determined that “there is no doubt that the Streit Group's sale of armoured vehicles to Sudan violated Canadian sanctions” and that “the Canadian owner of the Streit Group, Guerman Goutorov, should have been investigated and—if sufficient evidence of law-breaking emerged—prosecuted under the United Nations Act.”

The Streit Group stands as an example of significant weakness in Canada's export control regime. It appears that companies that want to circumvent sanctions only need to establish supply routes in third states, while making the tenuous claim that there is no connection between Canadian and foreign facilities.

This case study illustrates a significant issue that must be addressed, and this issue is not location or company specific. As a prolific Canadian sanctions violator, the Streit Group provides a road map for other arms suppliers who may wish to dodge Canadian export controls and sanctions.

The Government of Canada must double down on its efforts to confront the offshoring of arms production and maintenance, which allows for free flows of weapons to sanctioned states and actors. Efforts could include a study on the extent of this problem. Another recommendation would be to conduct a review of the effective enforcement of Canada's brokering controls, which were incorporated into the Export and Imports Permits Act in 2018. These controls aim to regulate the extraterritorial trade and transfer of conventional arms by Canadians and Canadian entities.

I look forward to any questions. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Gallagher.

Now we will open it up to questions from members. For the first round we have five minutes.

Mr. Genuis, the floor is yours.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you very much to the witnesses.

I think the point is so important that Canada must maintain its commitment to Afghanistan in advancing freedom and democracy in Afghanistan and honouring the sacrifices of so many Canadians who fought and died in Afghanistan for Afghanistan's freedom, but also honouring those we fought alongside.

Mr. Nazary, thank you for being here. I want to ask you three specific questions. I will ask them together.

First, how can we in the present context pursue the advancement of freedom and democracy in Afghanistan? I think many Canadians would be feeling a little bit pessimistic right now. Perhaps you can help us chart the course to some optimism—not blind optimism, but some good, concrete action that we can take towards that goal.

Second, can you share a little bit with us about the National Resistance Front? Are there ways in which you think we should be supporting you directly?

Third, we're dealing in an ongoing way with Bill C-41, which in part is about trying to get humanitarian support to the people of Afghanistan while not in any way supporting the Taliban. How can we address the humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan and help the Afghan people in the immediate circumstances while still intensifying the sanctions and the consequences for the Taliban regime in response to the violence they are inflicting?

I will hand it over to you. Thank you again.

[Ali Maisam Nazary]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To answer your first question, about how to support the people of Afghanistan during the bleakest hour of Afghanistan's history, I believe it's not giving up on Afghanistan's people, which I see is becoming a trend in the international community today. The people of Afghanistan did not bring these terrorists to power. They did not have any authority or any role in the transformation that happened in August 2021 with the collapse of the republic and the rise of the Taliban.

The people of Afghanistan are still fighting for their freedom. They are still struggling for democracy, even though the international community, specifically NATO, left Afghanistan. They have shown this in many ways. One is the bravery of Afghanistan's women on the streets of Kabul and other cities in Afghanistan. Internationally, women are today struggling for their freedom and for their rights as human beings and as citizens in Afghanistan. At the same time, there's the political resistance the people of Afghanistan launched after August 2021, whether it was keeping the doors of the embassies open without any support or without any material assistance from anyone. We have had diplomats who have resisted succumbing to the Taliban. At the same time, they have kept their doors open in order to have a piece of Afghanistan free of terrorism and to represent Afghanistan on the international stage.

To transition to your second question, there's also the National Resistance Front. From August 15, 2021, as the republic collapsed and as NATO was ending its presence in Afghanistan, thousands of Afghanistan's military forces—those who, as you mentioned, fought alongside Canadians, who fought alongside other NATO forces—were trained and advised by the international community for 20 years. They did not give up the struggle for democracy, for human rights, for pluralism, for justice and so forth. They continued it under a new banner known as the National Resistance Front.

The National Resistance Front since then has been able to prove the international community false in their claim that the people of Afghanistan are tired of struggling for freedom and democracy and are tired of basically—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

We're just about to run out of time. What would the National Resistance Front like from us? How can we help you?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Please be very brief.

[Ali Maisam Nazary]

Of course.

The National Resistance Front at this juncture needs the moral and political support of the international community, especially from partners like Canada. This is the least that we are asking for today. We need especially political support in order to further our cause in creating political consensus and a democratic alternative for Afghanistan, which we've started it in a political process in Vienna, Austria. So—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Nazary. I'm afraid I'm going to have to cut you off. You're over the time.

MP Zuberi, you have five minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I'd like the thank the witnesses for being here today and for helping us to make our sanctions regime better.

We know that we have three main sanctions regimes or instruments that work together around sanctions: one, we have UN sanctions that we apply here, which can include multilateral sanctions; two, we have SEMA, which has existed for a while, on special economic measures; and, layered on top of that, not wholly but in part, are the Magnitsky sanctions, which say that SEMA should be applied not only with respect to economic measures but to having a human rights lens when applying it.

That being said, Mr. Nazary, you are involved in relief work. I know that you're involved in Afghan relief work. Importantly, you spoke about the current situation in Afghanistan, and you support robust sanctions on the Taliban regime.

I would just like to know, given your humanitarian work, if you can tell us about the impacts, if any, on the people of Afghanistan with respect to these sanctions. Related to that, are our sanctions, the regimes that are in place, hitting those that we're intending on hitting?

[Ali Maisam Nazary]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To make it brief, the humanitarian crisis hasn't been caused because of these sanctions, whether on the international level or by individual countries. The humanitarian crisis is a direct consequence of the rise of the Taliban, of a terrorist group coming in and taking over a whole country, holding a whole population hostage and trying to exploit as much as possible from the situation. We don't see the sanctions themselves as the cause of this crisis or the reason for this crisis to continue or exacerbate.

What we've seen is that the Taliban use this as an excuse on the international stage to receive concessions. At the same time, they are using the humanitarian crisis as a reason to relieve that burden of statesmanship and the responsibility to provide for the population of Afghanistan...onto the shoulders of the international community.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

That is helpful. We are looking at doing at a cut-out for humanitarian relief within Afghanistan and other places to speak to what you're saying, and that's I think helpful what you just shared.

I want to shift gears for a moment and go to Mr. Gallagher.

If you can speak about what you were saying with respect to Canadian border controls, you were suggesting a study on that. Do you want to flesh out that idea a bit in your testimony here?

[Kelsey Gallagher]

Yes, it's my pleasure.

One of our recommendations was for the Government of Canada to review how effective its implementation of brokering controls is. Brokering controls were implemented into the Export and Import Permits Act in 2018. That happened after Canada acceded to the Arms Trade Treaty, or the ATT—or due to that, I should say. That bill passed beforehand.

What these regulations do is apply an extraterritorial layer on Canada's export control regime, so that if there's a Canadian entity or a Canadian citizen that is brokering an arms deal between a foreign exporter and a foreign importer, they are subject to Canadian controls. One of the reasons this was introduced is that brokering has been identified as a major driver of insecurity in the international arms trade.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I think that's helpful.

You said something about third states and arms suppliers. Can you, in 20 to 30 seconds, talk about that?

[Kelsey Gallagher]

Sure. The issue this is trying to address is actors who are actively trying to skirt Canadian controls, right?

Canadian regulations are comparatively quite tight, so if an actor who we wouldn't want to export to needs a certain type of weapon, they could go to a country that doesn't have the same level of export controls that Canada has. That's really what these regulations are trying to address.

I hope that answered the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Gallagher.

We will now go to Mr. Garon.

You have five minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

I'm going to start with you, Mr. Nazary. Like the NDP member, I would ask you to keep your answers brief since we have less time.

Canada imposed sanctions on the Taliban regime under the regulations implementing the United Nations resolutions on Taliban, ISIL (Da’esh) and Al-Qaida. We know that countries have imposed sanctions on the Taliban regime independently of the measures taken by the UN. My question is twofold.

First, how effective are the measures taken under the UN resolutions?

Second, could Canada follow the lead of countries that decided to impose sanctions independently, on the basis of different triggers?

[Ali Maisam Nazary]

Of course, I believe sanctions are a very important tool to use against the Taliban and other terrorist groups operating inside Afghanistan, and we have to remember that it's not only the Taliban.

These sanctions will create the leverage needed by individual countries and the international community vis-à-vis the Taliban and other terrorist groups basically at a time when the international community has left the country, leaving them with $7 billion worth of arms and equipment and creating a situation where human rights are being violated. Half of the population, women, are being erased from public life, and other atrocities are happening. As I mentioned, the Amnesty International report came out yesterday. There has to be leverage against this terrorist group.

If we give up on this leverage, what else do individual countries or the international community have against this oppressive regime, this terrorist group, that has taken the whole country hostage and is oppressive and tyrannical?

It is very important to strengthen the sanctions regime, whether it's in the UN or individual countries, as long as the Taliban are acting in such a way that is not in the interest of Afghanistan's people or the international community.