Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 6th, 2023

[Natalka Cmoc]

Yes, we are seeing that the disinformation is making a difference in terms of the Global South countries—for example, Brazil.

Another example is the recent Slovak election, where they have declared that they are no longer going to be providing military assistance but will continue humanitarian assistance. They also had declared that they are supportive of the European Union accession of Ukraine as well.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

Could Canada play a different role, a bigger role, in order to change that narrative or that position somehow to allow more support for Ukraine from the larger international community members?

[Natalka Cmoc]

From what I have seen, I think that having more diplomatic relations with the Global South is making a difference. We're seeing that in the working groups for the peace formula. While we have a tight G7 and European group here, we're now expanding that to include others.

Just last week I met with the new Turkish ambassador, and that went very well, and I met with the Brazilian ambassador, so here on the ground I also am trying to expand in terms of the people I'm meeting and engaging with. I'm encouraging their participation in the various working groups, and it's also to be able to get a better understanding of what they are thinking and their concerns or hesitations.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

Food security and energy security—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm afraid that you're out of time, Mr. Aboultaif.

Next we go to MP Alghabra. You have five minutes.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ambassador, congratulations on your new assignment. Let me express my gratitude to you and your colleagues at the embassy in Ukraine for your public service under difficult circumstances. I'm glad to see you are back and able to brief us in front of this committee.

I want to build on the previous question about the reports that we're hearing coming out of Europe and the apparent weakening of collective resolve. Can you give this committee your assessment of European resolve towards supporting Ukraine?

[Natalka Cmoc]

What I understand is that on November 8, there will be a European Commission report that will speak to the seven points in terms of the European integration and some of the reforms. In my conversations with the European ambassador, all sense is that it's going well. They're feeling that there is progress and that it will likely be continued progress when working with Ukraine.

I think that there is large support, but we'll know more after November 8.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

To carry on this narrative, there is a risk, which has been talked about regularly out there, of fatigue with the ongoing war on Ukraine. With the fact that public opinion is paying attention to other international conflicts and other domestic issues, this is a risk that President Zelenskyy has highlighted. This is a risk that the Government of Canada needs to be aware of and that we, as parliamentarians, especially in this committee, need to address.

What is your advice to us as parliamentarians, as members of this committee, to address this risk? Can you help us to re-emphasize the point as to why it is so important for Canada that Ukraine be victorious?

[Natalka Cmoc]

Overall, I think there's agreement that this war is a global war and it is about the principles that we need to be able to maintain. We're starting to see that divide between the rules-based world and the non-rules-based world or others—the BRICS, as they call them.

I think that the rule-based order is really critical. Also, what we spoke of in terms of food security and energy security are issues that are going to affect all of the world. They are not going to disappear if Ukraine is defeated. In fact, the sense here is that they will increase.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Your Excellency, can you also talk about the role of Russia in spreading misinformation, particularly online—although it's not only online—and how that is having an impact on public perception in the west, including here in Canada?

What is your advice to us, again as MPs, in addressing this challenge?

[Natalka Cmoc]

I agree that this is probably the more dangerous part of the war, the disinformation and the malinformation that's out there and that's being created. It is taking a partial truth and making it unclear so that the public no longer knows whether it's true or false. There are a couple of examples there.

There is a lot to be done in this area. It's not my expertise, but I agree that this is something we need to do. GAC has a rapid response mechanism that continues to monitor and report on Russia's attempt to manipulate the information environment and spread it. I think it has been very well received by the Canadian public. We're in close coordination with allies and like-minded partners to counter Russian malign influence campaigns.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Your Excellency, I think I might be running out of time.

I'll list one final question to you. I will emphasize this because it was in my previous questions.

What is your advice to us, as members of this committee, as we are doing what we can to remind Canadians of the importance of this battle and why our resolve is critical at this moment?

[Natalka Cmoc]

I would say to continue to support the fight and the war with supplies for the military and with military training.

I think it's a good opportunity now to consider investing in Ukraine as well, particularly in certain areas that might align very well with Canadian sectors, such as energy, critical infrastructure or nuclear power, for example. There's a lot of interest in rail, and I think it would align very well with Canadian strengths as well. Critical minerals is another area that's been mentioned.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We will now go to MP Bergeron. You have two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to reiterate how important it is for Canada to hurry a delegation of parliamentarians to Kyiv. I guess that I am misusing the word “hurry” here because we have not been too much in a hurry until now. Canada claims to be Ukraine’s closest ally. Yet we have yet to set foot there. Despite security concerns, parliamentarians from just about every allied country have already visited.

Excellency, I would like to come back to the functioning of the embassy. I know that there is perhaps less demand today, but are we going to go back to processing visa applications in Kyiv instead of forcing Ukrainians out of their country to apply for visas to come to Canada?

[Natalka Cmoc]

Yes, visas seem to continue to be a critical issue here. Currently, the visa regime is still done outside of Ukraine—in London and in Poland at this time—until we can return a lot of the computer infrastructure required for secure information. That is still an issue here in Ukraine, in the embassy in Kyiv.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Your Excellency, I understand that the objective is to eventually resume issuing visas in Kyiv itself. Is that correct?

[Natalka Cmoc]

That is correct. It's just taking some time to return the servers required to be able do that, which—

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Excuse me for interrupting you, Excellency, but you will be able to follow up on the same train of thought because I will continue on the same topic. When can we expect the resumption of visa applications processing in Kyiv?

[Natalka Cmoc]

From what I understand, it could be a few days to a couple of weeks. We're not talking months. It's in a shorter term that we should be able to increase that service here within Kyiv itself.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Your Excellency, you know that during—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you. I'm afraid your time is over.

For the final two and a half minutes, we will go to MP McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you again, Your Excellency.

I also have a question about the embassy.

Earlier in this war, there were reports that Russia was going to invade and that the Ukrainian embassy staff were left to their own devices. We know that this is based on a decision that was put in place, I think, by Stephen Harper in 2014 in Afghanistan. However, we still have not seen the embassies change with regard to the fact that there is duty of care for our staff who are not from Canada. We saw that the Canadian staff were actually told to not tell the Ukrainian staff that they were at risk. This is appalling.

I'm wondering if you can update us on whether this has been changed to make sure that our local staff in embassies across the world, particularly in countries that are experiencing war, are being protected.

[Natalka Cmoc]

My duty of care applies to all the Canadian-based staff—currently, I have a hard cap of 25—and also to all LES, locally engaged staff, while they're at work. The current situation is still the same.

However, we do share information very openly. I have monthly meetings with them, where we talk about a lot of these issues and questions very regularly. I'm as open and transparent as I can be, in terms of the staff, about what I can and cannot do.

I think that first it's making sure that they have the information about what is happening and what's happening in Ukraine.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would just like to articulate that from my perspective, not having duty of care for all staff of the Canadian embassy is appalling. I would certainly like to see that changed.

The very last question for you is just to get some insight.

We know that Prigozhin has been killed. What are the impacts on the Wagner Group? How does that change the math or the calculations with regard to the Wagner Group?