Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 8th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Answer very briefly, please, because we are over four minutes.

[Timothy Egan]

First of all, most renewables cannot be implemented without access to natural gas. It's a core partner for the development of virtually any renewable.

Secondly, as much as there have been significant renewables investments, they're extremely costly. The development of natural gas assets is significantly less costly in virtually every application.

It's an all-of-the-above approach where you look at all of the key factors.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We now go to Mr. Bergeron.

You have four minutes, sir.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being with us, Mr. Egan. I, too, sincerely appreciate your patience.

The Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development found that the mitigation measures in the 2030 emissions reduction plan were insufficient to meet Canada’s target to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to at least 40% below the 2005 level by 2030. The oil and gas sector remains Canada's highest-emitting economic sector, accounting for 28% of total emissions in 2021 compared to 23% in 2005.

When you appeared before the committee in November 2022, you said, “[The] Canadian [natural gas] industry should work with government to map out a strategy to move more energy offshore.”

How can we reconcile your stated goal to move more energy offshore, on the one hand, with the fact that Canada seems to be incapable of meeting its greenhouse gas emissions reduction targets, on the other?

Moreover, I believe the war in Ukraine has exposed not only Europe's dependence on Russian fossil fuel, but also its extreme dependence on fossil fuels in general.

I know some oil and gas companies have started investing in clean energy. Do you think the oil and gas sector should start heading in that direction as of now?

[Timothy Egan]

I do, and I think that Canada faces a serious challenge. We've set very aggressive targets, which, as you've noted, are unlikely to be met, but we have at our disposal extraordinary resources that could be used to help meet, I would say, broader emission reduction targets at a global level.

In the domestic context, if we're having difficulty, and very recent reports indicate that we are to meet targets that have been set by the Government of Canada for 2030 or 2050, we could be contributing to global efforts to reduce emissions and thereby have a net positive impact around the world if not quite the objective we wanted to achieve within the domestic context.

For instance, we're having conversations with Asian countries that are very interested in bringing in natural gas that could be used to offset higher-emitting resource uses and thereby reduce emissions in those countries. We should be working, I believe, to find ways to ensure that the net emission benefit comes to us and can be counted against our own targets.

Similarly, even within North America, I look at your province, Mr. Bergeron, and I look at the fact that it has one of the most significant hydro assets in North America, which has delivered extraordinary benefit not just to Quebec but, I'd say, to much of northeastern United States. The opportunity to continue to develop those assets in an efficient way often depends on the co-operative development of natural gas assets for the efficient use of energy and for the efficient operation of energy systems.

The concern I have is the suggestion that it is one or the other. I believe that it is an all-of-the-above approach and, similarly, that it's not one or the other in terms of Canadian emission reduction targets and global emission reduction targets. We should be working with our allies around the world to reduce emissions globally in as co-operative a fashion as we possibly can.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We now go to Madam McPherson.

You have four minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was eager to hear from our witnesses about the food insecurity that's been caused around the world because of the conflict, the illegal war in Ukraine. Unfortunately, we're not able to do that right now.

I'm sorry, I don't have any questions for you, Mr. Egan, but I did want to take my four minutes because there is a concurrence motion happening in the House right now on a report that was tabled in February of last year. We know that our natural resources committee is being filibustered by the Conservatives because they also don't want us to be able to get anything done there.

They also blocked a unanimous consent motion I asked for today in the House, for a ceasefire for the people of Gaza. I thought I would use my four minutes to read the press release from leading Canadian humanitarian organizations that marked the one month of violence in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank. It called for an immediate ceasefire—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

There's a point of order, Madame McPherson.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

What's the relevance, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Could you speak to the relevance?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Of course. The relevance is that food insecurity around the world is caused by what is happening in Ukraine. That's very clear.

One of the places where it is happening most right now is in Gaza. We are seeing food insecurity in the Middle East. We know that it has huge implications on Lebanon and Palestine, so I think there is clear relevance.

Obviously, right now—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Can I ask that you make it as relevant as possible and make every effort to do so?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

The Conservative Party doesn't want me to talk about the 4,324 Palestinian children who have lost their lives. They don't want me to talk about the 1,350 missing children under the rubble in Gaza right now.

Unfortunately, this is my time to talk about food insecurity, so I will be talking about that in Gaza.

“Since October 7, unprecedented violence”—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

In relation to Ukraine please.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank has resulted in a humanitarian catastrophe.

Thousands of civilians—including children—are being killed, and with millions more suffering as a result of countless attacks, relentless bombing, hunger, dehydration, sickness and the absence of clean water, fuel, healthcare and humanitarian assistance.

While the organizations and local partners are providing some immediate assistance to civilians on the ground—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Madame McPherson, I will once again remind you that there should be some relevance to the study of Ukraine.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I have a point of order on that same point.

I would be supportive of Ms. McPherson's continuing. There's a long tradition of members' being able to use their four minutes as they wish. The relevance is somewhat tangential at times, and I've heard that many times; however, I think it is the member's right to take that four minutes.

I hope that the clock is stopped right now so it doesn't interfere with her four minutes.

I would say that I'm supportive of it because, as she mentioned, there's a concurrence motion that the Conservatives have presented in the House of Commons that stopped the debate on Bill S-9. I thought we had agreement that it would be an important bill to get through the House quickly. We are now stopped on Bill S-9, which is about chemical weapons, warfare and updating the list to try to keep our planet safe.

As Ms. McPherson said, we have interrupted the House. It is a piece of business that was to come to this committee, so it is, I think, of interest to all of us. I would like to hear Ms. McPherson.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.

Ms. McPherson, I would ask that you try to make it as relevant as possible to the study that we're doing.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I was speaking about food, fuel and the impacts on the citizens of Gaza.

One thing I would also like to highlight is that currently the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan is filibustering the natural resources committee, where we are trying to get a piece of legislation through that would help Albertans with jobs, and perhaps the energy sector would be more applicable in that particular circumstance.

Day by day, hundreds of innocent civilians are being killed in ongoing violence. The following organizations urge the government of Canada to take a strong and resolute stance in demanding a ceasefire in order to prevent further loss of civilian life and allow for the delivery of critical humanitarian assistance: CARE Canada, Cooperation Canada, Development and Peace, Human Concern International, Humanity & Inclusion, Islamic Relief Canada, Oxfam Canada, Oxfam-Québec, Médecins du Monde Canada, Mennonite Central Committee Canada, and Save the Children.

The lives of two million people are at stake. The healthcare system in Gaza is collapsing, hospitals are devastated and lack the capacity to treat the tens of thousands...wounded.

Mr. Chair, Canada should be calling for a ceasefire. I'm disappointed that both the Liberals and the Conservatives refuse to give consent for that ceasefire motion in the House of Commons.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Madame McPherson.

Mr. Egan, thank you very much. We're all very grateful that you're here in person and that you had an opportunity to share your expertise and insights with us.

I will now suspend for a few minutes, because we have to go in camera to do committee business. It should take about three or four minutes.

[Proceedings continue in camera]