Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 5th, 2024

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay, but that hasn't been done yet.

[Weldon Epp]

That hasn't been done yet because that investigation's still alive.

In the middle of that investigation, or at least at an earlier point in September, it was the case that the government became aware that the media was about to release information regarding this case, so the government prepared to respond and discuss those matters in public.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

That happens in all sorts of investigations, where there are rumours that media is going to break a story, but if the RCMP in this case isn't ready to lay charges, why would the Prime Minister feel the need or the pressure to go in the House of Commons and do that? Why wouldn't he just let the RCMP say, “No comment. We have nothing to add at this point in time.” Why would he allow the story to pick up pace?

When we look at the political damage of his politicizing it in the House of Commons, why would we do that? Why wouldn't we just let it stay at a low level until we had the charges actually being laid? That's a different story. You're laying charges now. That's pretty serious.

However, the Prime Minister making comments in the House of Commons, that's very serious. Would that maybe justify why India reacted the way it did?

[Weldon Epp]

I'm not going to be here to justify how India reacted. I think I spoke earlier and I'll repeat again that the allegations were sensational and unprecedented, and since Mr. Nijjar's murder earlier in summer, it is the case that this community of Canadians had already been very concerned about their security. There were a lot of rumours going on, so at the point at which this information was going to become public, the government chose to speak to it.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I assure you that I don't disagree with you, but the Prime Minister didn't provide—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Hoback, I'm afraid your time is over.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We now go to MP Zuberi.

You have four minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

As you mentioned, the people-to-people ties between India and Canada are very important. We have a lot of Canadians of Indian heritage who still have important ties to India, and our relationship is critically important.

It was mentioned in November 2023 by India's high commissioner to Canada, High Commissioner Sanjay Kumar Verma, that there have been a lot of conversations between India and Canada and that there's been a lot of dialogue. He says, “I feel that most of it is very constructive.”

How would you characterize the tone of things today, given what has transpired in the last months?

[Weldon Epp]

There's no question that these events, the allegations and how governments have responded to them, have brought on a very challenging period in Canada-India relations, but it's also the case, as my colleague Mr. Verma, the high commissioner for India, has described it, that there continues to be constructive engagement on both sides.

I can speak further to that with respect to government engagement, which remains intensive, but I would also point out that across society, engagement also remains robust. We ask. We seek perspectives. We understand from the business community that trade and investment relations continue to be strong. We have not seen any impediment to that. There continue to be many other channels of people-to-people co-operation.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

With respect to visas, which are important for people to visit their families and also to come to Canada, has there been an impact with respect to the issuance of visas from Canada to India or India to Canada for people who want to see each other or study in Canada?

[Weldon Epp]

You'll recall that in the fall there was a temporary pause on the side of the Indian government in terms of issuance of some categories of visas to Canadians. That has largely, although not entirely, been restored, but the visa services for the vast majority of visa categories used by Canadians have been restored.

With respect to Canadian visa services to Indian nationals, there's no question that the expulsion of two-thirds of our diplomats from our high commission in India has had an operational impact. That said, both GAC and IRCC have worked very hard together to ensure that the remaining core team of IRCC colleagues, together with their local staff, are able to address as best as possible the volume of visas.

I agree that it's in our interest and, I believe, in the interest of our Indian colleagues to continue to support robust family, student, immigration, business and people-to-people flows.

Thank you.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

The conversation around foreign interference has been quite robust. We saw the concerns around Mr. Nijjar's death. That will be going to court. There have also been reports around interference in other areas, including in the Conservative leadership race of 2022 and a nomination in the Conservative Party of March 2023.

Have those allegations created any strain at all in the relationship? Have they been raised?

[Weldon Epp]

I think members of the committee will be aware that the public inquiry into foreign interference has scoped India into its discussions. There's no question that both the work of that inquiry and the resulting public discussion around these issues will do two things. First, it will shed light on the nature of those concerns and how the government has been or could be addressing them. I think it will also inevitably bring a degree of, let's be honest, additional risk to diplomatic relations.

I think that's just part of Canada doing its thing—addressing a very important public issue and taking the time to do it. We speak to our Indian colleagues as well as others to explain to them the parliamentary process that led to that commission of inquiry and to ensure that they understand what it is and what it isn't.

Thank you.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

I'll now go to Mr. Bergeron for two minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll continue with my last question about the measures taken to try to remain effective despite the expulsion of 41 Canadian diplomats and their family members.

For example, have you hired more local staff?

[Weldon Epp]

Let me answer that in a couple of ways. There are two moving parts, if I might. There's the High Commission of Canada in Delhi. In that case, it was the Government of India's decision to effect a unilateral mass expulsion of 41 diplomats. That has meant our team is smaller with respect to Canadians accredited to India. Our local staff still continue to work and are managing to provide services across business lines to Canadians.

With respect to consulates general, those consulates provide some services remotely at this time, but they are not currently providing in-person services. Those in-person services have been brought to and are delivered by our high commission out of Delhi. There are some challenges with respect to the delivery of services, but with respect to supporting companies in investing and trading, for example, we continue to have both Canadian and local staff who are in the consulates providing those services to Canadian companies. Local staff are still in those cities. Their managers are either in Delhi or working from the region to support those services remotely or, as delegations come through, in person.

Thank you.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Have you hired more local staff?

[Weldon Epp]

I'm sorry. Let me just make sure that I get the nuance. I'm afraid I might have missed....

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Have you hired more local staff?

[Weldon Epp]

No, we have not. I'm sorry to be difficult in getting to the direct answer. It's no.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

You're out of time.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

MP McPherson, you have two minutes.