Evidence of meeting #97 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was turkey.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Well, if we did three minutes for your party and the Liberals, and a minute and a half for the others, that would give us 15 minutes before voting takes place.
5:40 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Unless someone wants to go back to the House, I think we can continue with five, five, two and two.
February 28th, 2024 / 5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Thank you to our officials for appearing before us today.
The most recent conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh started September 19. On the same day, Canada issued a statement that basically called on the Azerbaijanis to refrain from any actions or activities that would be a risk to the safety of the civilian population and to work in good faith to restore humanitarian access to the region. However, six days after that relatively benign statement, Canada's ambassador and permanent representative to the United Nations described the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh as “a complete failure of global diplomacy in the face of ethnic cleansing”. The term “ethnic cleansing” was used by our official representative to the United Nations.
Is it Canada's position that ethnic cleansing has taken place or is taking place, or both, in the region?
5:45 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Ethnic cleansing is a term that has been used frequently in the context of this conflict. It is not, however, recognized as an independent crime under international law. It may constitute an element of a crime falling under the ICC jurisdiction—and I would note Armenia has just signed on to the ICC—such as crimes against humanity or certain war crimes when the conditions for the commission of such crimes are met.
A legal determination of those things needs to be done by a competent international or national court or tribunal. In the absence of a viable route to determination by an international court or tribunal, an investigation by an independent and impartial investigative body, ideally established by the UN and its associated bodies and agencies, could form the basis of a potential recognition of these crimes.
There is no doubt that some horrific things happened, but for a determination at law, we would look to a legal process to make that determination.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Can you tell me why our ambassador to the UN would use such a highly explosive term at a time when probably the last thing you would want to do is exacerbate a really explosive situation within the region?
5:45 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I cannot speak for our ambassador to the UN, but I can say there were lots of expressions of deep concern over what was happening at the time in an effort to ensure that such activity stopped. I'd put that statement in that category.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
All right. I draw from your comments that, in fact, it is not Canada's official position that ethnic cleansing either is taking place or has taken place in the region.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
I didn't even hear them say “might have”.
You said that it was up to an official “legal determination” to come to that conclusion.
5:45 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I think what I said was that ethnic cleaning may be a constituent part of other legally recognized crimes and that we would look to a legal process to recognize those crimes per se.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Given that our ambassador actually made the statement, I'm assuming he does reflect Canada's policy and position on this. Can we draw from his comments that ethnic cleansing may very well have taken place, at least as part of something larger that would be determined in the future?
5:45 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I would look more to an independent investigation to make that determination.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
5:45 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Again, I will defer to our ambassador to the UN.
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
All right. Maybe we'll have him before our committee someday.
I'll cede my time to Mr. Epp.
5:45 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to our officials for being here today.
I'd like to ask a couple of questions about the state of the border skirmishes, which we have read about of late. That would then lead to the state of the negotiated peace that we believe is in place.
Do the skirmishes indicate that this is not in place, or are they rogue elements? With respect to the prospects of peace, going forward, what is the best role that Canada can play?
5:45 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
In terms of the border skirmishes, the border is obviously a very tense area. I take it as a very good sign that the peace talks are ongoing, despite what we understand was a sniper attack on the 13th, not by Armenian forces but by a militia-type group, and then the shelling that killed four Armenians. I think the two sides are managing that situation and are moving ahead.
In terms of what Canada can do, to the maximum possible, it's to ensure that the conditions for those discussions continue and that we avoid inflaming the rhetoric in any way, shape or form.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Do you feel that the discussions between the leaders of Azerbaijan and Armenia are in good faith and that we may be supportive of that?
