Government Operations Committee on Feb. 13th, 2007

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

What type of business and what specifically? How is that reflected in your statements?

[Richard Neville]

Packaging. It's consolidated, so it's not a large entity compared to the Royal Canadian Mint. It is consolidated, so when we share our financial statements at the end of the year, both the revenues and the expenses are included there, and so are their assets.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You said it's a packaging company?

[Richard Neville]

Yes, packaging for--

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

So does it also provide the Mint with a profit, or is this a loss?

[Richard Neville]

Yes, it does. Yes, it has a budget. It has plans. It's profitable. It does some work for us. It also does some work for other entities--the U.S. Treasury, the U.S. Mint.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

One last comment. When you talked about demand for coinage and why all of a sudden the demand has gone up, you said parking meters take cards now, so there is less of a demand. That's counterintuitive. So people are putting them in jars. That doesn't increase the demand. It means they're going into jars, as opposed to parking meters, and they're not necessarily in circulation.

Have you done...? It's counterintuitive, and somehow I can't swallow that, so do you have something that provides some understanding of why there would have been such an increase in demand, and do you expect these sorts of increases to continue?

[Ian E. Bennett]

Let me take one last stab at it.

What used to happen, when people put coins in parking meters and put coins in the slots in their buses, those coins would be collected by armoured cars and taken back to the coin pool and recirculated. So when a financial institution demanded more coins, those coins would be sourced not through the Royal Canadian Mint, but through the recycling of the coins through the parking meters, through the transit fares and so on. The retailers are still demanding coinage to make change, and there are two sources for them to get coins. One is recycling them through parking meters and general use of coinage, and the second is through the Royal Canadian Mint, demanding new coins.

So the fact that people are not putting them back into circulation but hoarding them instead increases the demand for new coins, and therefore we have to produce more.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Is that an assumption, or is it based on a study that tells us this is what's going on and you need to plan for that?

[Ian E. Bennett]

It's not pulled out of the air. It's a conclusion reached by the National Coin Committee, of which we are a member, that this is what the wizards in the financial institutions think has been happening. The question becomes, this can't go on forever. People aren't going to end up filling their houses full of coins. So there will be a point when the demand for coinage will come down as the coins get recirculated into the system, but how long that period is going to be is a good question. And it makes it hard for us to plan our operations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

Remind me to go into all my purses; I bet there are all kinds of loonies and toonies everywhere.

Thank you for coming, and I hope you keep on making lots of coins and bigger and better profits, because I think the government likes them. Thank you.

Now, before we leave, we can go in camera—but we don't really have to.

Madame Thibault just had a question. It's about an order-in-council appointment that was referred to the committee, the appointment of Madame Jocelyn Bourgon as an adviser to the cabinet. Madame has it with her there.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

You all received it from the clerk.

Through the Governor General of Canada, Mr. Harper appointed Ms. Jocelyne Bourgon, whom a number of you must know and who was Clerk of the Privy Council, senior advisor to the Privy Council Office. We're told she has been appointed during pleasure and that her salary will be between $218,800 and $257,500. Those are her salary conditions.

I think it would be a good idea to welcome Ms. Bourgon to our committee so that she can explain her duties to us. She could be accompanied by someone from the Privy Council. For example, we've just voted supply and we've received someone from the Privy Council. If the Prime Minister takes the trouble to appoint a councillor, that person will definitely have a special role to play with regard to the work of all senior officials of the Privy Council.

I have a great deal of respect for Ms. Bourgon, but I'd like to know what she will be doing and how that choice was made. A number of individuals in the public service have very important positions and take on similar duties. It would be interesting for her to tell us how she will perform her duties and take up that challenge. I'd also like someone from the Privy Council to tell us why Ms. Bourgon was selected. I'm certain she's a good choice, but I think our mandate enables us to review appointments. We have the opportunity to do so, and I suggest we do it.

I didn't want to introduce a motion on this point. I wanted to talk about it with my colleagues beforehand. If they are prepared to do so in a friendly manner, we will do it, but I will introduce a motion if we don't have a consensus.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

What is the pleasure of the committee? Do you agree?

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

As I've not personally reviewed this yet, is there any way we could have this in a motion and then we'll discuss it at the next meeting?

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

We received it on February 8.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Yes, I just hadn't seen it until now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

She can ask for that. We don't need a formal notice of motion; she can move a motion now.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

I'm just asking if it would be all right if we just hold off on it until the next meeting.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

We could decide on Thursday to invite her to come and meet with us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We could decide to have her come. It turns out that Passport Canada said they only have an hour for us. If we wanted to have her here, we could do so after Passport Canada on Thursday the 22nd. But it's up to you.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I understand, and I believe my colleague when he says that he hasn't looked at it. It can happen that we don't have the time to look at everything the clerk and our researchers send us. I trust you. I don't believe you're setting a deadline in order to make us wait.

I suggest we make that decision in a friendly manner on Thursday. We'll have a response from colleagues on Thursday, since it appears that we're all in agreement here. I'd like it to be done in a consensual manner so I don't have to introduce a motion. If it doesn't work on Thursday, I'll table a motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

She's already been named.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

We have until April 16 to...

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

This isn't like one of the certificates of nomination they're asking us to re-approve or not. She's already been named, so all we can do is to have her here and ask her questions.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

What was the role this committee established on tabling motions?