Government Operations Committee on May 15th, 2007

[Mike Hawkes]

They are two totally different formulas. In terms of their value, we haven't finished calculating that yet. Some of the older assets in the group of nine are fully depreciated. I think there are at least two that are fully depreciated. Others are barely in the early stages of the depreciation. It'll really depend on the asset assessment. It'll be one of the things we'll look at as the transaction comes forward.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Back to my previous question, how exactly will that transaction then be booked? I know you say you're still working on it, but you must have some experience with disposing of federal assets. There ought to be some protocol on how the disposal of an asset is booked.

[Mike Hawkes]

The government has accounting standards that very closely match generally accepted accounting principles. The Comptroller General could explain them to you in great detail if you had him here.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Could you sum that up?

[Mike Hawkes]

We would recognize the sale of an asset, so it would be taken off the balance sheet. The accumulated depreciation would come off. The gain or loss on the sale would be reported against the equity. It's exactly the same as you'd do it in the private sector.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Any cash would go into the consolidated fund.

[Mike Hawkes]

That's correct, the cash would go into the consolidated revenue fund.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

That's maybe what you were looking for.

Excuse me if I am asking a question, but Public Works wouldn't actually get access to that cash to do more renovations on other buildings, would it? It would just go into the consolidated fund.

[Mike Hawkes]

All authorities to spend come from the government, so the receipt of the cash would be deposited, you're quite correct, to the consolidated revenue fund, and then the priority of the government would be decided as to what the use of that cash would be.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you, Mr. Poilievre.

Mr. Turner, for five minutes.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

Just out of interest, do we have the master plan for renovation, restoration, and ongoing rebuilding of the parliamentary precinct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We don't have it, no. There have been master plans before. They've been changed. There are some, I know; I just don't know what they are.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

Is it possible for the committee to get the latest version of the parliamentary precinct plan?

[Daphne Meredith]

What we're trying to do is establish plans in five-year periods, recognizing that restoring Parliament Hill is likely to be an ongoing project. Instead of conceiving it as a 20-year enormous project, we're trying to look at it in five-year chunks. The five-year period we're on now is focusing on the West Block renovation and the attendant renovation to swing space that we need to make in order to move people out of West Block—committee rooms, etc.—to keep everybody functioning.

We can surely provide you with information on that program, and we're happy to do so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

But for the House of Commons, is there not an architect who's on full-time?

[Daphne Meredith]

It's complicated governance, because of course the plan is largely determined by parliamentarians through consultative work that they do in deciding where they want to go. Public Works is a service provider to that. But because Parliament is Parliament and the Senate is separately constituted from the House of Commons, the governance is somewhat informal in nature and has to be so.

To your point, we do have somebody working in our parliamentary precinct group from the House of Commons, we may well in the future have somebody from the Senate side working with our group, and we have somebody from our team working with the House of Commons staff, recognizing that we want to stay closely linked on these quite ambitious plans.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

What's the five-year budget?

[Daphne Meredith]

I'm afraid the accounting is a bit complicated. I think what we have approval for right now is some $235 million worth of work, related mainly to....

I have the data here. In June 2005, the West Block program received preliminary project approval for some $821.5 million, of which some $248.3 million is granted to complete the masonry stabilization of the West Block towers and the implementation of interim space projects.

So that is where we are. Overall, it's over $800 million.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

So funding was approved in 2005; when in 2005?

[Daphne Meredith]

It was in June.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

In June 2005, for $825 million?

[Daphne Meredith]

That's right.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

For this building?

[Daphne Meredith]

No, it's not fair to say it's for this building per se, in part because we are...and Tim can speak to the details to a greater extent than I can. The program itself probably involves 10 or 15 individual projects to renovate buildings on the other side of Wellington Street to provide swing space in, for example, La Promenade Building on Sparks Street. There are many other buildings involved—the Clarica Building, the C.D. Howe Building—that would allow people to move in there not only from the West Block but also from other buildings on Parliament Hill when their turn comes for renovation.

In other words, we're renovating swing space across Wellington Street for something more like a 15- to 20-year usage period.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

How much are we spending on this building?