Evidence of meeting #55 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was problem.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Because of the law. You cannot access it because of the confidentiality agreement.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON
The confidentiality agreement of the two banks that did a study and advised the government that it was a good deal to sell these buildings?
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Yes. That's been explained ten times, Peggy.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON
To me, it's basically close your eyes and jump off the bridge; take a leap of faith and trust us that everything's going to be okay.
Well, frankly, I don't think that case has been made, and that's the nub of this debate. It's not whether people can be sworn ironclad to secrecy. We're talking about a lot of money. These are assets that belong to the Canadian people. If they're going to be sold off to the private sector, it might be a very good deal for the private sector, but we've not been assured that it's a good deal for Canadians.
That's the case you folks have yet to make.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Raymond Bonin Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Madam Chair, the concern my colleagues have is legitimate. The concern the supporters of this motion have is certainly legitimate.
I'm not moving an amendment, but I will suggest a friendly amendment. It will not please the government, but I think it will solve the problem. If it's not acceptable, I suggest we vote and live with it, and let the House deal with it.
So I suggest we start with, “That because the committee is not satisfied that it was provided appropriate information of the benefit of leasebacks for the taxpayer”, and so on from there. Because that is our concern, that we didn't get any documents. We asked for documents and we didn't get them.
The process that has started already will continue. It's evident that our concern is that we did not get the information we want in order to make such a decision. It's not everything the government wants and not everything you want--
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
If I may, Monsieur Bonin is not far from where Madame Bourgeois was maybe 10 minutes ago. We always say “information” and so on, using very vague terms here. If committee members are looking for precise questions and precise information, that's fine, but information to ease Ms. Nash's mind may be something very different from what would ease another's mind, or Mr. Turner's mind. And that's fine. Frankly, we're almost debating here entirely out of vacuous understanding of what it is we're dealing with here.
If committee members want to put together a list, as Madame Bourgeois just suggested, of very precise questions--about commissions, about timelines, about dates, about when RFPs are going to be going forward, and so on--then put together a list of very precise questions. If this committee is actually suggesting that the federal government should put a cease on what we are already in the process of doing, then I think that is a political statement rather than an information-searching decision about whether or not this is, as Ray Simard said, in the best interests of taxpayers.
So if committee members want to get a very specific list of questions, then let's do that.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Raymond Bonin Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
No, we have a suggestion for a friendly amendment. That is legitimate.
The problem with that, Mr. Moore, is that you may get what you ask for--i.e., we will ask for a list of information and documents and still vote for the motion. If I were in your chair, I would at least want to draw attention to the fact that we don't have enough information to make a decision.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
We are a minority in this committee. The opposition will do what it wants to do. But if this is a sincere effort to get information, and you're not satisfied with the deputy minister being here three times, the minister being here three times, and the head of real property being here four times, and you're not satisfied with our verbal presentations to the committee and you'd rather have it written--
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Raymond Bonin Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Madam Chair, if you're not satisfied with my suggestion for a friendly amendment, we can just go back to the main motion.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Raymond Bonin Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
I do not have the text in French. I will read it in English.
“That because the committee is not satisfied that it was provided appropriate information of the benefits”--
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Raymond Bonin Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Would you please listen, for a moment?
It starts, “That because the committee is not satisfied that it was provided appropriate information of the benefits of leasebacks for the taxpayer”, and the rest stays the same.
It draws attention to our concern, which is that we don't have enough information to make that decision. We're recommending to the House that this is going on, we're concerned about it, and you'd better deal with it. And the House deals with it; we only recommend here.
So you have that amendment or we go back to the main motion.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Mr. Warkentin.
We have an amendment on the floor. Basically the amendment—if I'm correct—
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
—says that because the committee is not satisfied the information was adequate...and that the government place a moratorium on the sale, and so on.
Mr. Warkentin.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Obviously I'm not in favour of that amendment, because it still says the same thing.
5:30 p.m.
Some hon. members
[Inaudible--Editor]
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
I think it's important or incumbent on you if you're not convinced as of yet, for some reason or some unspecified information, to mention what information is not provided. I'll tell or guarantee you we already have—
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Do we have unanimous consent to continue debate? We can continue if we get unanimous consent.
Is there a motion to adjourn?
5:30 p.m.
An hon. member
I so move.
